Toriningen look like Plague Doctors.
i am open minded to the fact that toriningen are involed in the medical profession there other features look to out of place for it really. it looks like what a every day person would wear. also it's more speculated that it's to do with tengu since it's originated from japan. but then again you could be onto something,i do see the defenate connection
>>312I know they seem to be based off Tengu, but think about this. They look scary. In dreams scary-looking things go berserk even if they aren't scary. Then they quarantine Mado by putting her in the middle of nowhere.Creepybirds + Dream + Quarantine + Tengu = Toriningen Also, Madotsuki being sick would be the reason she can't leave.Actually, there are alot of sick (as in sickly) things in her dreams.
>>312
I know they seem to be based off Tengu, but think about this. They look scary. In dreams scary-looking things go berserk even if they aren't scary. Then they quarantine Mado by putting her in the middle of nowhere.
Creepybirds + Dream + Quarantine + Tengu = Toriningen
Also, Madotsuki being sick would be the reason she can't leave.
Actually, there are alot of sick (as in sickly) things in her dreams.
>>314You do make a good point with the reoccuring themes of blood vomit and dismembered body parts. There's also the plain white theme, with Masada's spaceship and the Monochrome Desert. The hospital is an extremely tramatizing experience for both young and old. I remember when I came out of the hospital from having heart surgery I was in such emotional trama, being in there for a long time makes you crazy with the smells and laying in bed night and day. I personaly feel distressed when I'm in the presence of a compleatly white room, which is why Masada's ship made me feel incredibly uneasy when I first played the game. It's interesting that you connected the Toriningen with the plague doctors, however I feel that their clothes are too modernized and don't fit the outfit of a typical plauge doctor. Never the less it could be a combonation of things Madotsuki might have seen, with her pervious knowledge of the plague doctors and the casual appearance of nurses.
>>315If Madotsuki knows so much crap about the Aztecs and Mayans, she at least should have a clue of the plague. Also, I think the Toriningen wearing modern clothes is her fear that the plague is happening again in modern times. With that being said, she is sick and won't leave her room.Oh yeah, also Plague Doctors (especially the signature mask) are said to show signs of illness and death. AND WHATS IN HER DREAMS? OH REALLY ILLNESS AND DEATH WHAT A SURPRISE. Also, once again, the Toriningen quarantine you.I like you. Last edited 09/11/09(Mon)12:50.
>>315
If Madotsuki knows so much crap about the Aztecs and Mayans, she at least should have a clue of the plague. Also, I think the Toriningen wearing modern clothes is her fear that the plague is happening again in modern times. With that being said, she is sick and won't leave her room.
Oh yeah, also Plague Doctors (especially the signature mask) are said to show signs of illness and death. AND WHATS IN HER DREAMS? OH REALLY ILLNESS AND DEATH WHAT A SURPRISE. Also, once again, the Toriningen quarantine you.
I like you.
Last edited 09/11/09(Mon)12:50.
Uboa/creature in the background of where Uboa sends you -> cancertoriningen -> plaguemonoko -> birth malformationsmonoe -> aniridiaeyeball/legs/hands world -> body integrity identity disorderFACE (door from kyukyu)-> schizophreniaE guy -> allergies ?
Uboa/creature in the background of where Uboa sends you -> cancertoriningen -> plaguemonoko -> birth malformationsmonoe -> aniridiaeyeball/legs/hands world -> body integrity identity disorderFACE (door from kyukyu)-> schizophreniaE guy -> allergies
?
>>318I didn't notice a whole lot on Mayan/Aztec culture at all. A few geometrical patterns, and a pinch of vaguely Aztec-looking sprites don't seem like she could write a thesis on it or anything. And how is knowledge of ancient South American culture related to knowledge of medieval/Renaissance European history? A lot of people here (Uuuuurope) are decently skilled in European history, but would probably be unable to point one difference between Canton and Mandarin culture.>>319Schizophrenia is an awfully big bag psychologists/psychiatrists dump everything suspicious in. Even the older works differentiate at least between manic, depressive or catatonic forms. And how would the said NPCs make a passable metaphor of the diseases?And finally, don't normal people dream of diseases/death, both openly and through metaphor, all the time?I'm not sure I like this anymore. There's too much extrapolation from REALLY insufficient data, and no one seems to care enough to research the game or whatever they're pointing to. Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)11:41.
>>318
I didn't notice a whole lot on Mayan/Aztec culture at all. A few geometrical patterns, and a pinch of vaguely Aztec-looking sprites don't seem like she could write a thesis on it or anything. And how is knowledge of ancient South American culture related to knowledge of medieval/Renaissance European history? A lot of people here (Uuuuurope) are decently skilled in European history, but would probably be unable to point one difference between Canton and Mandarin culture.
>>319Schizophrenia is an awfully big bag psychologists/psychiatrists dump everything suspicious in. Even the older works differentiate at least between manic, depressive or catatonic forms.
And how would the said NPCs make a passable metaphor of the diseases?
And finally, don't normal people dream of diseases/death, both openly and through metaphor, all the time?
I'm not sure I like this anymore. There's too much extrapolation from REALLY insufficient data, and no one seems to care enough to research the game or whatever they're pointing to.
Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)11:41.
>>320since the topic was about diseases I listed what some of the creatures could remind of.OP suggested that toriningen look like plague doctors.true. the creature from uboa world slightly resembles a pancreas (and in another topic it was debated that spitting blood is one of the symptoms for pancreatic cancer),monoko has many arms,monoe has black eyes (of course this sounds ridiculous but there was also a whole topic on this),the world with body parts reminds of amputation, FACE was a reference to the schizophrenic art(it does resemble it a bit),and E guy sneezes and also glares if you turn into a cat of course they could remind of something completely different to others, so let's see
Listing items that pop up is brainstorming. Which is all fine and well except an objective correlative or a metaphor needs to be pretty tightly bound to the subject matter.Spitting blood is also a symptom of lesions on the esophagus. Is therefore Mado a sufferer? That would also explain why NASU is kept in bloody red colors. Schizophrenic art has a lot more features than just the feeling of surreal, 2/3 people of the world have black eyes probably, and I guess my point is that an idea that is conjured up by one simple personal association is not even a hypothesis, much less a theory. Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)12:25.
Listing items that pop up is brainstorming. Which is all fine and well except an objective correlative or a metaphor needs to be pretty tightly bound to the subject matter.
Spitting blood is also a symptom of lesions on the esophagus. Is therefore Mado a sufferer? That would also explain why NASU is kept in bloody red colors. Schizophrenic art has a lot more features than just the feeling of surreal, 2/3 people of the world have black eyes probably, and I guess my point is that an idea that is conjured up by one simple personal association is not even a hypothesis, much less a theory.
Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)12:25.
>>322>except an objective correlative or a metaphor needs to be pretty tightly bound to the subject matter.>an idea that is conjured up by one simple personal association is not even a hypothesis, much less a theory.Um, dude, this is Yume Nikki we're talking about here.People can associate some creatures with certain things as they damn well please.As obscure a game Yume Nikki is, it's kind of hard to say "this is this, that is that" and be certain about it, obviously. Theories are exactly what they are- merely speculation, guesses, and opinions, and bashing someone else's opinions because they differ from your own is just stupid.However, I do agree with what you said about schizophrenia. FACE could symbolize countless things. Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)13:40.
>>322
>except an objective correlative or a metaphor needs to be pretty tightly bound to the subject matter.
>an idea that is conjured up by one simple personal association is not even a hypothesis, much less a theory.
Um, dude, this is Yume Nikki we're talking about here.People can associate some creatures with certain things as they damn well please.As obscure a game Yume Nikki is, it's kind of hard to say "this is this, that is that" and be certain about it, obviously. Theories are exactly what they are- merely speculation, guesses, and opinions, and bashing someone else's opinions because they differ from your own is just stupid.
However, I do agree with what you said about schizophrenia. FACE could symbolize countless things.
Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)13:40.
>>323>People can associate some creatures with certain things as they damn well please.Well yeah. And like I said, that's dandy. But I just find it difficult to scrounge up time to pay visits to the forum, and when 99% of the people do not bother with basic research, or just goddamnned Occam's Razor, then it just feels like a waste of my time.And a theory is defined as something different than guessing. Ideally all evidence supports it, and no evidence contradicts it; it is internally coherent. It's what I'd basically like, rather than a single association based primarily on personal viewpoint that doesn't get through Occam's Razor.EDIT: And I'm not even bashing Prima's guesses because I disagree. I gave examples of guesses that are just as unsupported by in-game evidence, and therefore just as moot. There's too few guesses that bother to look at multiple NPSs/locations/items in the game, instead insisting on an arbitrary imposition of an association. Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)13:50.
>>323
>People can associate some creatures with certain things as they damn well please.
Well yeah. And like I said, that's dandy. But I just find it difficult to scrounge up time to pay visits to the forum, and when 99% of the people do not bother with basic research, or just goddamnned Occam's Razor, then it just feels like a waste of my time.
And a theory is defined as something different than guessing. Ideally all evidence supports it, and no evidence contradicts it; it is internally coherent. It's what I'd basically like, rather than a single association based primarily on personal viewpoint that doesn't get through Occam's Razor.
EDIT: And I'm not even bashing Prima's guesses because I disagree. I gave examples of guesses that are just as unsupported by in-game evidence, and therefore just as moot. There's too few guesses that bother to look at multiple NPSs/locations/items in the game, instead insisting on an arbitrary imposition of an association.
Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)13:50.
>>323those cats is what reminded me of FACE , of course it's so interpretable and this might just be an ambiguous coincidence >>324you mention basic research, how people don't bother to research the gamethe game was played countless times and every little thing has been pointed out here, even the littlest sprite that only appears in rpg maker we can't really base our theories on more than graphics and some few actions of characters so many saw penises, vaginas, penetration, etcnote that i wasn't entirely basing everything on a very restrained personal opinion, and gathered up information on what others believe/see as well of course this shouldn't be that much of a problem,yume nikki might not be that deep to begin with apologies if my statements are far fetched :) Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)14:14.
>>323those cats is what reminded me of FACE , of course it's so interpretable and this might just be an ambiguous coincidence >>324you mention basic research, how people don't bother to research the gamethe game was played countless times and every little thing has been pointed out here, even the littlest sprite that only appears in rpg maker we can't really base our theories on more than graphics and some few actions of characters so many saw penises, vaginas, penetration, etcnote that i wasn't entirely basing everything on a very restrained personal opinion, and gathered up information on what others believe/see as well
of course this shouldn't be that much of a problem,yume nikki might not be that deep to begin with apologies if my statements are far fetched :)
Last edited 09/11/10(Tue)14:14.
BRB GOING BACK ON TOPICWhat about the pregnant decapitated head thing?Also, why did Mado kill herself if she was just sick? She wanted all the pain to end?
BRB GOING BACK ON TOPIC
What about the pregnant decapitated head thing?
Also, why did Mado kill herself if she was just sick? She wanted all the pain to end?
<3
>>328
>>326>Also, why did Mado kill herself if she was just sick? She wanted all the pain to end?that of all things would ACTUALLY make sense.
>>326
>Also, why did Mado kill herself if she was just sick? She wanted all the pain to end?
that of all things would ACTUALLY make sense.
Maybe they're clearing the plague out of Madotsuki's dreams. Maybe Madtsuki eventually BECOMES the plague.Sorry if it's already been stated, don't have time to read all these posts.
Maybe they're clearing the plague out of Madotsuki's dreams. Maybe Madtsuki eventually BECOMES the plague.
Sorry if it's already been stated, don't have time to read all these posts.