[Burichan] [Gurochan] [Futaba] [Photon] [Uboachan] - [Home] [RSS Live Feed] [Manage]

Posting mode: Reply
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Password (for post and file deletion and editing)

File: 1294021689027.png -(30.9 KiB, 160x162) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
31686 No.2229   [Delete]   [Edit

I finally got around to compiling my freaking information and research on the Aztec imagery as well as some other things in YN, so here have a theory that is practically rapeless and hopefully covers a lot of things in the game. If I miss anything, ask me about it and I'll try to fit/shoehorn it in because I like doing stuff like that.

To begin with, I'll start with the very strong basic themes of YN and how they connect to Aztec and Mayan Mythos as well as the militaristic history of South/Meso America. Pregnancy, Suicide, Water/Underwater/Drowning, Eyes and Faceless People.

Pregancy is considered a kind of battle, and women who die in childbirth are considered honored warriors. There are lots of things people interpret as pregnancy imagery, including puking and the bloody zipper that leads to FACE. Rather than being just about pregnancy they could represent the struggle of labor that may lead to death (especially in places with limited healthcare). The image in the background of one of the levels is very similar to/a simplified version of the goddess of childbirth and healing, Ixchel. I'll have a better comparison later.

There's also a paradise in the Underworld reserved specifically for people who were struck by lightning or drowned. Some people have noted that Uboa looks like the face of a drowned woman... Considering such a fearful thing exists in a paradise (the pastel lake), Poniko could be either someone Madotsuki knew closely, by association or just in passing that drowned or simply turned up on a lake shore somewhere.

Suicide is considered a path straight to heaven by the Aztecs and Mayans. That much should speak for itself.

The faceless people in the barracks, specifically, and people who speak in numbers can be paired together with the eyes. South America is rife with guerrilla warfare and backstabbing governments that are well known for making disagreeable citizens "disappear". In Chile, these disappearances are known collectively as the Vanished(correct me if I'm wrong) and this climate sets the stage for my Yume Nikki theory very well.

>> No.2230   [Delete]   [Edit]

To start with, Madotsuki's parents are quite possibly archaeologists, and very possibly an international couple. This explains nothing but Mado's red/brown hair and Japanese name(and a few Japanese myths like Yuki-Onna, the faceless girls and others). They focused on the myriad of cultures and ruins of south and meso America, where they are thousands of discoveries yet to be made. Thrust into this world of discovery, anthropology and myth is Madotsuki; she is either born there or is forced to move to a world where there are language and cultural barriers and bad TV reception, and only a cheap videogame to keep her company. As mentioned in the post above, it's also a world filled with a good deal of behind-the-scenes violence.

So, naturally, she listens to the stories of the places her parents work, the reasons behind strange architecture, the brutal culture of the peoples that built them... It becomes her world.

Now, you can interpret one thing in two ways... either Madotsuki's mother died in childbirth or at the very least a close acquaintance of the family did. As an archaeologist/anthropologist her father may have tried to comfort Madotsuki in an offbeat way, with stories about the Aztec beliefs about birth and its complications. Whether madotsuki is obsessed, fascinated or reviled by this is up to you.

The legends she was fed, the videogames she played and the language barrier between her Japanese and the Spanish of Natives or the technical talk of other archaeologists began to bleed into her other form of entertainment, her dreams. As she became older and more mature, she began viewing her dreams as both her own experiment in anthropology and culture, an outlet or maybe something the ruins and ancient people had put there themselves, her own personal Mictlan/Xibalba.

In the political climate Madotsuki is eventually forced into a situation in which she cannot leave her room/home. It could be a hostage situation, it could be her parents were killed in said situation, it could be her fear of either of those or even foreign diseases and other dangers. Whatever the case, we know and have played through the results.

Next I'll start on area analylsis <:

>> No.2231   [Delete]   [Edit]
File: 1294025274622.jpg -(350 KiB, 1024x682) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Neon World-- I've said this a lot all over Uboachan. Neon World looks like traditional Guatemalan embroidered shirts called huipils. pic related.

Wilderness -- Vines, desert and ruins that lead to the Sky Garden, the home of the Rave-Monkey and the eventual path to the Barracks. This could be a mental representation of Mexico/the Sea of Cortez, with all of its deserty wastelands and the famous Ziggurats in Mexico City. Also, consider the stark contrast between the Sky Garden's apparent finery/manicured lawns compared to the rattling tin shacks of the Barracks. This is something you see especially in Mexico City, the poorest of the Poor by the voguest shops, surrounded by ruins.

Block World-- Not as obvious, but it could be interpreted as a very simplistic version of an archaeological dig.

Sky Garden-- I mentioned it in the part about the Wilderness, but it could be looked at as a place of the gods/place of beauty/sanctum sanctorum(inner sanctuary archetype) and it also has similarities to a Mayan Myth in which their hero twins steal a glowing flower from the garden. The flowers are what grant immortality. There's also the flying things around this area... I think they look a bit like butterflies/moths but I could be wrong. ALSO, I need to find a myth that paralells Organoid because I'm almost certain there's a myth about something you can't catch, another impossible trial of the hero Twins.

(also, re: hero twins and re:pregnancy imagery vs. aztec pregnancy beliefs: Madotsuki had a twin that died O: !?! Afterall, there is the ghost of Madotsuki in the Hell Maze! But this may be a bit of a stretch.)

Famicom Worlds 1&2: Obviously Earthbound/Mother-Based, and possibly a relic from Madotsuki's old life in Japan or just a favorite videogame. But, the other world is filled with ruins and people who talk in nothing but numbers, yet another twisted view of archaeological digs.

White Desert-- In context with the archaeology/anthropology I'm not sure what to make of it except it looks like the surrealism/jazz/cartoon art of a certain era I forget close to WWII, and since there are Buddha Heads/severed heads and Monoko and Monoe look more Japanese/Asian it could be any combination of things, taking cartoons from the 50's, giving them a morbid bent(Thanks Aztecs 8D) and throwing them in an isolated desert sounds like about what dream-logic does to reality sometimes. monoko and monoe could represent deaths that there are no categorization for in Aztec Mythos as well. (hit by train/died of lack of sleep/overdose). I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this one.

Forest with ghosts-- I got nothing. Yes, pitiful I know. But you enter the Hell maze through it, so perhaps it could be considered a gateway to the underworld.

Checkered Place with Pyramids-- MORE RUINS! Only really colorful and nifty.

>> No.2232   [Delete]   [Edit]

In Mayan afterlife Mythos, people go to a place called Xibalba. To get there you have to cross a river of puss and go through a ton of other nasty and dangerous things. Once you get there you face puppets of the gods who basically troll you into forever for fun. That could be any number of things in Yume Nikki.

Hell Maze-- In Xibalba there are Four/Five "Houses" one must pass through as a challenge. One of them is the "Hot House" which is supposedly a place on fire or a volcano.

Dark World-- Just like above, the representation of the Dark House, and it could also be yet another reflection of Madotsuki's on the ruins her father excavates.

Numbers World-- ER, I can't get much on this besides one area of it, the place where you get the severed head effect. It's filled with pointy things and Toriningen, which makes it comparable to the "House of Knives", which was essentially filled with living razorblades.

Thing With the Chattering Jaw: A far reach, but it could be considered the Jaguar House in the myth, just because it is a huge freaking monster and could be seen as a twisted version of a Jaguar because of teeth.

Snow World: The "Cold House" or "Rattling House" (which refers to the rattling of Hail). Pretty easy.

and for now I am out of theory but will continue to post stuff here. Feel free to ask questions or whatever if I missed anything.

>> No.2233   [Delete]   [Edit]

Alright, alright, wait a second there

I've read your posts, and so far some things did click in (especially when I read about Uboa, as in "holy shit we get teleported to a world filled with monochrome water and Uboa's face is below water as well it's a girl that drowned holy shit holy shit")

And we can all agree that Aztec imagery and themes have a very strong presence in YN.

But seriously, you CAN'T be trying to explain every major occurence in YN through Aztec/South American culture/folklore. Specifically Poniko/Uboa and the chain of FACE events, they just don't match.

Poniko lives in an "enchanted castle in wonderland" of sorts, it's clearly the idolized princess that every little girl dreams about. As for Uboa, there are too many theories to count, but as far as your theory goes, there are 2 reasons why I don't think it's viable, these being:

A- You go through the ice world and the pastel lake world to reach Uboa, neither of those seem to be even distant references to any sort of underworld (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't got the slightest clue as to what an Aztec underworld is supposed to look like)

B- Even though Uboa could technically be considered to exist in a sort of "paradise", as soon as you touch him/her/it you get stuck in a rather hellish location from which there's no way out

Now for FACE

I'd have to say, even while taking into account the general speculator's amazing ability to see penises everywhere in this game, the area that leads to FACE is quite blatantly a reference to rape

Even if you can't think of FACE itself as a penis (I sure have a hard time doing so), and if you don't think stabbing the zipper is a metaphor for a forced penetration that led to the loss of Mado's virginity, Kyukyu-kun is about as dead a giveaway as there could be

Now, this doesn't mean it can't fit together with your theory. As far as behind-the-scenes stuff goes, Mado could have been raped as a sort of warning to her parents, for whatever reasons might have led to them being killed later on. That being said, I'm not so sure about them being a couple of international archaeologists. If they were, there would probably be imagery from other cultures as well, not just a few Japanese legends

The part of your theory which sounded better to me was definitely the bit about the Vanished and the barracks people. I felt it fit in especially well, mostly because the Barracks are in close proximity of the Aztec pyramid which leads to the Sky Garden, which in turn has its very own vanishing creature

Anyway, I'll be following this thread closely. Your theory might very well have something to it, and for the most part it doesn't sound far-fetched at all

EDIT: Started typing when only your first 2 posts were up. I stand corrected on the Uboa/Underworld matter, but it still doesn't seem very likely

Last edited 11/01/02(Sun)20:24.

>> No.2234   [Delete]   [Edit]

Oh, yeah I get you man! I should have put a disclaimer that I know I can't gel everything, but it's fun to try to, and by no means do I think this is the be-all, end-all theory of the game. Just another way of looking at it that offers a way-different interpretation. I'm going for looking at things in different ways despite other theories and the most common one because I'm a nonconformist mythfag who likes to have some semblance of originality /loser

I'm doing a lot of shoehorning, and honestly I don't believe this is what Kikiyama intended in the least, but it's a fun what-if. So I c\CAN try to explain everything in this context and try to make it gel even if it's not "canon", per se. (YN canon what is that)

Also: I'm keeping rape out of it because you don't need trauma to have fucked up dreams with disturbing imagery : D I know this from experience. I don't really care if it seems to be a blatant refence to rape, I have known girls who have not been raped and have rape dreams, and I have had sleep paralysis in which things like face appear. You can believe what you want but all the Freudian stuff on /t/ makes me want to go the Jung route with culture, archetypes and collective unconcious instead!

For the princess/idolizing thing it can be that AND be the representation of paradise reserved for people who were drowned/struck by lightning/disease. (the lightswitch could be an offhanded representation of that) The Aztec Underworld has sections, and you wouldn't have to "enter" it like you think of entering Hades via Charon and the River Styx. Also, if it's a dream, who's to say Madotsuki's mind would create a "gate" or grand entrance to everything? And it's not the real place, it's a dream, so that doesn't mean Uboa couldn't exist in a paradise like Tlalocan(the name of said location)... It could be viewed as a revelation of the violent truth behind the death that leads to paradise, especially since it's a dream and stuff like that happens.

Clarifying this point: I said international because interracial didn't sound right. I didn't mean they went to every country, just that they were from different countries.

Besides those bits I'm glad you like it and I'm glad I'm not being too far-reach-ish for all of it! Let me know if and when my shoehorning gets too obnoxious ;D

>> No.2235   [Delete]   [Edit]


Oh, I see. Well, in that case I've got nothing in particular to point out. You're doing a great job trying to explain YN events through a different point of view, and it sure makes for an interesting read

Having read your new posts, and since you asked for thoughts on this, I'd sooner be led to believe that the Monochrome Desert is the area of her dream generated by her "childhood" (so to speak) in Japan. After all, if we're looking at it through a cultural viewpoint, it's only natural that some parts of her dream are directly related to cultural influences other than South-American ones

And of course, I know you don't have to experience something to dream about it, that's pretty obvious... Or else we'd all have really boring and plain dreams. But even so, YN isn't like a regular dream either. More like a world Mado put together in her mind, seeing as stuff in dreams doesn't really happen the way it does in YN (and I don't mean it in a "you don't just go around walking through your dreams and collecting effects" way. I mean the events in dreams, for example an event related to rape, wouldn't be represented as it is in the FACE events. At least according to my girl, but she's currently getting a master degree in Psychology so I dared not inquire further lest I got caught in some heavily boring lecture)

I'd also like to know how you believe the Teleport Maze connects to your point of view, if it does at all. I feel it's a very neglected area as far as theories go, but yours might just have room for it

And, well, I'm guessing I can -almost- let go of the whole Uboa thing. As I've said before, some things did seem to click in, so it's not hard to try to understand it through your viewpoint. Also, seeing as you get teleported to a section fo the Monochrome World after touching Uboa, we can once again make a reference to her life in Japan (a girl drowned in Japan during her childhood, possibly even a girl she idolized as the ideal girl, and after learning about her parents' work she went "Oh, so Poniko's in Tlalocan now") But you're GONNA have to explain to me what that weird twisted bloody creature in the background of Uboa's World is supposed to be according to this theory, because I've got nothing, and it just doesn't sound right without an explanation for that thing

And as for FACE, well...

As much as I dislike the usual "YN is a penis sightseeing tour in Mado's dreams" theories, I think if you try to link Kyukyu-kun to her cultural/archaeological background all you're gonna end up with is a really funky-looking pole-rubbing Aztec pyramid. Or the hidden Aztec God of Pole-Rubbing

Last edited 11/01/03(Mon)07:54.

>> No.2236   [Delete]   [Edit]

While I like how fleshed out and different this theory is, I still think that all the aztec imagery has to do with the fact that the Aztecs are linked to the 2012 theory/end of the world.

of course, that'd go hand-in-hand with the post-apocalyptic theory.

also, where's that Ixhcel/background god comparision?

>> No.2311   [Delete]   [Edit]

Oh boy, let me tell you, I can't WAIT until 2013 comes and everyone shuts the fuck up and realizes that Dec 21, 2012 is just the Mayan equivelant of New Years and nothing more. I cannot fucking wait.

>> No.2371   [Delete]   [Edit]
File: 1296727528329.gif -(16.2 KiB, 300x281) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Bumping because this theory is something I LIKE. I found a number of images of Ixchel, but don't recall anything looking like a simplified version of them in YN... or I can't make the connection. this image though, has it's hand outstretched and is sitting/kneeling in a way that Aztec Rave Monkey could be interpreted as sitting.

Delete Post [] Password
Report Post(s) to Staff