Umm...Flow theories?

Ok, I have a few easy mode theories that are more or less part of the story I have in my head:

1. Sabitsuki is into computers in a very big way, seeing that she actually uses hers to focus herself into her mental world.
2. As a result of the above, she's not so much dreaming as she is looking inward as she travels the internet, something along those lines, since that's how Flow works to my limited understanding.

Painfully obvious stuff out of the way, here's some more stuff.

1. Sabitsuki doesn't really 'fear' anything. The only things that kick her out of her dream are either critical failures, which are more disruptive to her concentration than anything else, or reaching some goal and thus exiting of her own will. I still don't know what's up with the black hair girl death room, though, so I don't know where that fits. However, the two other events that forcibly boot you out are both things that involve becoming physically unable to continue in her mind.
2. Sabitsuki has some sort of fetish for her body being altered, given the number of effects that completely change her in some way. This one's a bit flimsy and could really apply to any main character, but most of the effects that change her in some way do so to either her whole body or parts of her body. Plus, given the unique nature of how Sabitsuki does things, she possibly has more say in what she does, thus is less a victim of involuntary manipulation.
3. Like Yume 2kki, Sabitsuki's world is one where Yume Nikki exists but as a work of fiction. Because Arm effect.

Come on, I seriously want to get some discussion going about this, even if I'm completely wrong about everything here. .flow needs more love, man.

>>2058
IMO form my personal fallings into flow, it's not at all as you state with the fetishes. It just kinda happens, and you go along with it. I use computer to fall into flow as well, so I'm a bit like Sabitsuki and I understand that some things are places where she has been before, but warped with her own opinion of them. Like I imagined the hospital and where it leads to show that obviously Sabitsuki was in a hospital before, but she thoroughly despised it or thought is as frightening, if the tense music is any description.

As for her not fearing anything, you can't be afraid when you fall into flow. If you do, then you fall out of it, it's as simple as that. Fear is distracting, and flow is all about being 150% focused.

And lastly, with the form changings, they could easily apply to things Sabitsuki herself is close to personally, or aspects of herself. For the cat effect, I understand it most because I myself have been told I am most like a cat. Perhaps she feels that she is more like a cat than a human. Other effects I see herself thinking she is less than human, maybe emotionless like a machine, being underwater (and therefore being far away from everyone else, total isolation in the most peaceful sense).... etc.

It may be just my personal experience with my own flow, but yeah... that's my 2 cents. If I could get .flow to work on my computer I would have an extensive amount of theories.

Sabitsuki is Madotsuki, who didn't die at all, just grew up, became more strong mentally and now writes books about her dreams. Oh, and she is so old, that her hair are gray. Or they turned gray after all that dreams.
Or else why there's HELL LOT of familiar locations? Not exactly the same as in Yume Nikki, but still. Just more...wasted. And deformed. Even her room and balcony are pretty old, and look like expanded version of Mado's room.
And Uboa in labyrinth. Oh, Uboa.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaああああああああああああああ

>>2170

Actually, going off this... What if the suicide attempt failed, and she instead suffered brain damage which caused her dreams to worsen?

She ends up becoming a test subject at a facility, hooking up to a computer that gives her medication and hopefully will fix things, though an illness has also onset and caused her to be almost unable to sleep, leading her to need medication to do such.

And I remember that, oddly enough, injuries to the head can lead to spots of hair that grow without color.

Just a random thought.

Theory: Reason that Sabitsuki's huge computer speakers turning on are emphasized:
Sabi uses her PC to play Isochronic Tones/Binaural Beats/possibly some other form of lucid dream-inducing sounds to go into a dream state faster. The game doesn't take place in the computer, it takes place inside her head like the other YN games. The odd pulsing tone you hear when she initially goes into the dream state are coming from her PC speakers and are still being heard through her ears in the beginning and fade away as she goes into a deeper dream state.

>>2058

No.1 of the "not painfully obvious" theories is bullshit. Not only does she actively refuse to go through the door in the bloody white room, indicating fear, her computer gets blood on it after that event occurs, so either A. the stress from that particular memory is so great it causes physical harm to her or B. her subconscious form is drawn to those memories due to what is happening at that moment with her real body (a nosebleed or coughing blood). I'd have to say A though

also >>2100
read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) , because you clearly haven't got the slightest idea of what the flow state is. Get informed instead of randomly assuming it's supposed to be flow just because of the game's name

Last edited 11/01/06(Thu)11:07.

Hey, hey guys.

What if, what if, just listen to me here, what if Sabitsuki's computer isn't plugged in?

>>2249

As soon as you sit down, a light switches on, signaling the turning on of the computer.

Would have been interesting, though

Whoa whoa wait... it's not yume nikki, it's not yume 2kki... what is that???

>>2254

it's called .flow

one of the many, many spin-offs, so to speak. this one just happens to match, if not surpass, YN in terms of awesomeness

You can get it here, along with many other fan-made games http://loda.jp/yume2kki/

>>2247
I know what it means and I am referring to it correctly. She is going into flow, and her concentration on it explains her lack of fear, since fear is distracting. The reason why she refused to go into the door in the white bloody room was just that- FEAR. And you know what happened next? SHE FELL OUT OF FLOW.

>>2272

I'm afraid you're wrong on that one.

Flow isn't a subconscious state. You're aware of what you're doing. You don't "fall into flow" and explore your subconscious world. You "fall into flow" and start actively and single-mindedly trying to accomplish the task at hand. This can include any number of things, from breaking a puzzle to getting a bit of programming done, as long as the challenge scales right with your abilities.

In short, falling into flow does NOT send you on arbitrary subconsciousness exploration trips, it just makes you 100% focused in, and entertained with, what you're doing at the moment.

And I think he was referring to what >>2058 said when he talked about fear and whatnot

EDIT: Also, does anyone who know about this theory mind explaining me why the viscera area is so often associated with cancer?

Last edited 11/01/09(Sun)07:46.

>>2272

whatever, just keep looking dumb. If I wasted my time with every "oh look I do stuff just like in yume nikki look at meee" faggot that'd be all I'd ever do

>>2273

>Also, does anyone who know about this theory mind explaining me why the viscera area is so often associated with cancer?

Several reasons for me:
-It's in the uterus world and many believe those black haired girls you see near the entrance represent cancer since there's alot of them and usually in groups, much like cancer cells (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no biologist).
And another thing that kinda screamed "cancer" to me was the brown floor in some of the later areas in the uterus like world. It doesn't look natural... it looks... infected maybe. IDK, like I said I'm no biologist so I'm just kinda going off common sense and prior knowledge here.

>>2275

I appreciate it, thank you for taking your time to explain that.

I've always thought about it the other way around. The girls were the good cells, and the disease that was destroying the area would be some sort of flesh-eating disease, like ebola.

I thought this mostly due to how the area is filled with mouths (getting progressively bloodier as you move on), the ground, which looks like it was half-eaten (so to speak), those weird creatures with the mouth-faces that strip you of your current effect after showing a bloody full screen image, and most of all due to the somewhat secret event that takes place in that room with the giant girl.

Since ebola multiplies inside cells until they burst, I always took those fissures we see on the girls to be just that, the beginning of a viral burst, the completion of which can be seen in the aforementioned event.

And sorry to ask another question, but why an uterus? I can kind of see how some bits resemble the shape of an uterus, but others have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Is there some sort of "official" confirmation? Like the maps being called Uterus or something along those lines?

>>2276
I heard people call it the uterus area before, so I just kinda followed along and called it that. Looks more like a stomach or just the inside of the body in general to me though.

As for the official name, I'm not entirely sure as my RPG Maker displays all the names of the maps in garbled Japanese. (yes I have applocale, and .flow and 2kki run just fine, for whatever reason the maps' names don't show.

Opening up .flow in the editor, most of the "womb" area is called "体内" (body?), while one distinct area of it is called "胎内迷宮" (labyrinth womb?). If you zoom out and look at the shapes of the maps in those areas, one area has the distinct shape of a stomach, while another looks like a cervix with uterine tubes (I'm not kidding around here). That's pretty disturbing, I have to admit. Lol really knows his/her stuff when it comes to making people uncomfortable.

>>2277

The same thing happens to me, so it must be usual, and doesn't screw up the game as far as I've noticed. And it's not like I'd be able to translate it if the correct characters appeared anyway, don't know the slightest bit of Japanese.

>>2280

Yeah, there were a few areas that looked like they had the shape of an uterus, but others looked nothing like any part of the female reproductive system, hence my question.

Thanks for clearing that up, makes a whole lot more sense for that area to be an entire body than just an uterus

I...love this idea, enough that I am starting to write a story about it already. (anyone here be interested in reading it if i did finish?)
And it does make sense given the Arm effect and other similarities to YN
I remember the place with the hood and gun, some kind of asylum or clinic, it really stood out to me because of how...eerie it it, all white and clean even with the blood on the walls and excepting the body room. maybe its the area its in. All grungy and ugly and the asylum stands out like some place that you could be safer than the slums you are in.

So perhaps that means that Sabi sees the places she's put in as offering some, but little, safe harbor from the world and herself

The hospital rooms leading to the underwater area and the living thing you walk around in were where she stayed after she was found. They kept her alive with IV drips and machines. Though its one of the other areas that feel sterile, the whole place has blood spatter. Remnants of her own splatter? I dunno, but this is fun to speculate about.
Maybe i'll post some more theories later on

You know, I've been pondering something. Think about the bodies floating in the lake next to the fisherman, and the fear of going to Hell... You think Sabitsuki killed a number of people in the past and feels ashamed of it?

>>2276
You know, this makes me wonder about that strange white foggy area with the extremely peaceful music, the only thing there being a Kaibutsu, looking into a 'hole' or other black spot. Maybe that was the 'start' of the infection. then, when you smacked the kaibutsu, and ran away, the whole area turned bloody and just like the mouth areas. Also... the flesh level is where you find the picture over here. I don't know what it means though...

>>2339

Yeah, I've wondered about that one too. Doesn't seem to serve any function, I've checked it out in RPG Maker and there are no events associated with it. It's just there, and I really don't know what to make of it either

Being a flesh-eating disease would also fit nicely with the whole bleeding theme we see in the hospital and in the dark area in-between (so much so we have to enter a mouth with sharp teeth which are dripping with blood to get to the body area)

As far as your theory goes, everything checks out. We have a peaceful white area, then we're teleported to an area which has nothing but a hole, which likely symbolizes the initial entry point for the virus, and a Kaibutsu, which could be seen as the first infected cell

He's ok until you strike him, which can easily be interpreted as a metaphor for the cell burst as a result of an ebola infection's final stage. This would then lead to a snowball effect across the rest of the body

As such, when we teleport out of the Kaibutsu area, we're confronted with a number of other bloody Kaibutsus (other cells which were destroyed) and the mouth-face creatures (the virus itself)

All this to say yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one

Last edited 11/01/25(Tue)18:04.

>>2339
those things in the pic almost look like kaibutsu heads... or sabitsuki's head, since they have that same white, messey hair.

>>2340
so does sabitsuki herself have this flesh eating disease, or someone she knows? I think personally it's someone she knew, simply because she's seeing some pretty grusome stuff that I don't think she'd be able to live long enough to see on herself if she had the disease.

>>2341

Please don't read on if you haven't played the game in its entirety, as I don't want to spoil any secret events.

I was thinking it'd be a person she knew, but now that you asked I'm remembering the post by >>2247

After that event, the bloody white room one, her computer gets blood on it. And while I don't want to base my whole theory on this, it is quite alarming for someone to just cough up a considerable amount of blood like that

So maybe, just MAYBE, this disease isn't/wasn't affecting another person she knew, but herself. She might have quarantined herself, to prevent from spreading it, which is why she refuses to go out of her room

According to Wikipedia, it takes from 2 to 21 days for a person to die after the symptoms start. It's not difficult to accept that the game may be placed in that timespan. 21 days is a lot of time, after all

So I guess either way would work. We might be able to take this further after the next few versions get released

P.S.: As a side-note, Wikipedia also stated that Ebola can be transmitted through bodily fluids or "conjuctiva" exposure, which is basically the same as saying it can go in through your eyes. Remember all the eyes and bloody eye sockets in the body area? I sure do

>>2342
Consider also the distinctly Freudian shapes of the flesh-halls; transmission by bodily fluids can and does occur by way of the vaginal mucous membrane. Also could explain the horrible gaping holes in the floor.

The "eyes" you speak of, I seem to remember thinking they were mouths because they had exactly the same shape as the mouth in the background.

>>2346

The halls don't resemble vaginal walls in particular all that much. If you ever have to watch a live colonoscopy you'll see you could just as easily make a comparison between those two

Also, as far as the eyes/mouths are concerned, I meant the ones in the pic I'm posting now

I think the balloon mouths are just another one of the metaphoric mouths we see throughout this area

Of course, we could support your freudian theory by saying those balloons look like spermatozoa... They kinda do

EDIT:

Just noticed the pic >>2339 posted had these bloody eye balloons as well

Last edited 11/01/30(Sun)09:53.

>>2347

>bloody eye balloons

Thought they were bloody my-teeth-all-fell-out-because-my-gums-are-disintegrating-oh-god balloons.

>eye-crater

Sure enough.

>walls

Yes, but you had to walk up a cervix, through a uterus down a Fallopian tube to get there, remember?

>sperm

That's an idea. The thought of STDs changes things up a bit though. I just assumed she had been in hospital for something reproductive related, another patient had a hemorrhagic fever, and that wasn't normal here so nobody had heard of "barrier nursing".

>>2352

I've called them "eye balloons" because I never thought about them in any way other than that of an eye with its iris area destroyed/plucked out. Of course, it can be something else, but a mouth doesn't seem likely to me, given the hole's small diameter

As far as the walls go, can you elaborate on that? According to >>2280 's description of the map names, the area is supposed to be a body, not just a uterus as it was (apparently) commonly referred to

I might be forgetting about a certain section of the body area where the walls are different. You don't need to post pics or anything, just give a pointer that can be used to identify where the "there" in question is

>>2356
I'll go take a screenshot if you like, but I'm talking about the areas mentioned in >>2280

>Opening up .flow in the editor, most of the "womb" area is called "体内" (body?), while one distinct area of it is called "胎内迷宮" (labyrinth womb?).

As he also noted, one area is visibly an outline of a stomach, and the one leading into the eye-mouth-places is an outline of a cervix and uterus.
I'mma get you those screenies; it'll take a bit, cuz I'll be putting them together so the outline of the area is visible.

>>2359
Done! With pix from Wikipedia for reference.

>>2360

Never did think of that narrow passage as that, but yeah, it fits nicely. That uterus map had a very distinctive shape, so that was the first thing I thought about when I went through there as well

My point is that even though you have to go through there to keep going, you also have to go through a lot of other areas, and I don't really see anything that gives particular importance in either of those 2 places

For example, before that passage, you have an area with a black haired girl sitting in a throne (no good idea as to what that's supposed to represent). We even have the most important of all events related to this portion of the game there, the room with the dying girls

And now that I think of it... we have a one-eyed monster... coming up from a pool of liquid...

Ok, ok, maybe there ARE more than just a few freudian signs to pick up on here. But as far as the walls are concerned, I really think they were just meant to look visceral

Most of all, I can't agree with the bit about this virus having been spread through intercourse. The area with the eye craters and the events that unfold there seem very much like a blatant metaphor for the beginning of the viral infection (to me, at least), and it's very far away from the cervix and uterus areas

Also, just putting this out there, I've been thinking about the teleporters and it seemed to me like they represent the circulatory system, seeing as they are filled with virus monsters and carry us from one part of the body to another. Any thoughts on this?

>>2361

>no importance

That was actually my second experience in the flesh area, so I always perceived it as the entryway to the rest of the body. I immediately linked the virus dimension's events to it when I found them.

>dying girls

Do you mean the viscera effect? If not, then spoil for me how to get this event. I haven't actually figured out how to get across the Loch Ness Penis's little pool, so. Actually kinda new here. Only reason I already know about the Sabi-mouth bleeding is because it's how I heard about the game.

>sexual transmission

You're probably right. But the eye/mouth balloons look too much like spermatozoa, also Loch Ness Penis, for SOMETHING like that not to be involved.

>circulatory mouth dimension

Seems to make sense. But that's also where all the teef-sperm are, and they're mixed in with virus monsters... Did Sabi give a blowjob to somebody she shouldn't have? Or is she just blaming a(n) (ex-)boyfriend unjustly for her sickness?

>>2369

First things first, the event. It's a pain in the ass to get. You have 20% chances to get it every time you enter the subconscious world, and have to do like a 7 minute walk. As such, I'm posting a link of my game folder, since I edited it to get both this event and the killer Kaibutsu event every time, feel free to download it (just click my name)

Also, I'm going to keep this spoiler-free so as to preserve the pure awesomeness of this event

To get to this event, you go to the steel pipe world, down the stairway, across the old building with the "xD"s and pools of blood, up that building's stairs, touch the rotating box, then go to the right on the rainy square tiles world and try to make it past either or the Kaibutsus and touch the other rotating box to enter the other old building. Then, you go down the stairs and to the right. 20% of the times you will see the "face" which is above Sabitsuki in the first screen of the attached file. To get in you only have to steel pipe it. You'll be on the other side of the one-eyed monster room and see .flow's most spectacular event

Now about the balloons, I've overlooked that one place in the 2nd screen. It was really pretty obvious and it would certainly have been my first theory about them if I remembered that place before. My guess is the mouths/bleeding eyes in the bone cells are a metaphor for the terrible joint pains that come with hemorrhagic fevers (the Dengue fever is even called the Breakbone fever as well). Also note in those areas where the infection is stronger/in a later stage there are more bleeding eyes than mouths. This also means the circulatory system theory isn't likely at all

Still think the one-eyed monster's a dick, though. It might be because, since she's exploring a body, her mind associated things like intercourse with the location at hand

Last edited 11/02/03(Thu)16:24.

>nobody mentions that the white "balloons" look like sperm

They look like sperm. Sperm with mouths(maybe a very loose reference to how people viewed sperm way back in the middle ages? As little people with arms, legs, head, etc and all they needed was a womb to grow in?) And sperm with a bloody hole inside... Probably infected sperm. Ewwwwwwwww.

picture is kinda related, it's the "homonculi sperm" i was talking about. top right corner, ignore the rest of the image im too lazy to edit that shit out

edit: getting rid of my sage, forgot to take it off

Last edited 11/02/03(Thu)14:58.

>>2379

But we did mention it looked like sperm. It's in this post >>2347 just above the edit. And the anon that's been actively contributing believes this too

About those man-sperms, I really don't know what to say. I mean, both the eyes and mouths are recurring images throughout the body area, but even if we overlook that bit, why do you think Sabitsuki has this sort of primitive view regarding spermatozoa?

>>2375
Thanks for the info.

Also note that there are two hospitals, one between the slum and the mirrorslum, and one between the rave and the bloody darkness.

I have a mostly-formed theory. I haven't figured out the importance of the mouth dimensions yet,though.

But Uboachan won't let me post it. "string refused".

EDIT: Just saw the dying girls; holy shit.
Also, breaking theory into smaller pieces didn't work, so find it at >>>/m/ post 709.
EDIT AGAIN: >>>/media/ number 709, there is no /m/ on uboachan.

Last edited 11/02/03(Thu)20:49.

>>2382

Maybe the post's too big? Try to divide the posts if you think that might be it

If not, then it might be an URL you're trying to post. Some *chan boards block URLs to a few websites

Don't know what else it might be if both don't work

Regarding that second hospital, do you mean that building where you get the Black Hood effect? I always thought of that as being more of an obscure human testing place from all the dead bodies and butcher-like backroom

>>2383

>second hospital

I was referring to the tile area with IV stands, EKG screens, a couple beds and some Kaibutsu, which you have to go through to reach the dying girls event or get the broom effect.

>>2381
aw shit i missed those. well i guess it serves me right for only skimming the thread. Oh well.

And I guess why she thinks they're little people could be just something she saw as she was surfing the internet, or even when she was little. It could of tucked itself into her subconscious and then become warped to look like an entire mouth or a bleeding eye instead of a little man. Although the theory is just a really loose one with holes, it makes sense of you think hard enough.

edit: Always forgetting to take off my sage, derp

Last edited 11/02/03(Thu)21:17.

>>2384

ah, that. Never did feel like that was a hospital though, it felt more like a sort of broken space in-between memories. But yeah, it's a hospital alright, the only thing that's made me feel otherwise were the Kaibutsus and the rain

I've read through your theory, and it seems pretty good. I've always seen the area of the, shall we say, colorful rainbow background where you open the zipper as a disco, was surprised I wasn't the only one to feel that way. One particular point I'd disagree on is the catheter bit. If you look at that area, you see a horribly disfigured body (metaphorically, of course) and it's pockmarked with holes. My guess is these holes are her way of viewing the damage the virus does to the body, and I'm quite sure it's through one of these very holes that you enter

Another thing which didn't sound quite right was the second hospital. Things in a dream tend to follow a certain flow, and that hospital is just too separated from the body area. It may very well be from another trip to the same hospital, though

Awesome event, wasn't it? I also agree with what you said about the viral burst, even wrote it in this older post >>2276

This event is probably just how she sees the end of the journey for her. And she isn't that far-off, either (WARNING: EXTREMELY graphical) http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PDbJY8bhKvI/SN8ZhlvmHEI/AAAAAAAAABo/dqb85gVB8mE/s1600-h/HY_ebola_01.jpg

>>2385

It would make quite a lot of sense, yes, but we need to think of them from an isolated point of view to get there. In reality, there's a whole load of other stuff going on in the body area, the most glaring example would be, just like anon said, that the exact same mouth that's in those sperm things is seen in the background of those areas where you get teleported to in the body. They really must be related in some way

>>2388

>open the zipper

I missed something again, I think.

>entered through hole caused by virus

I would disagree. The mouth looked like an orifice from outside, not an injury. Also, the first immediately recognizable thing I saw waas the uterus.

I think we can agree that something DID go horribly wrong at the hospital, based on "Hospital -> sideroom with dissonant music and an occupied bed -> DARKNESS AND BLOOD AND BONES AND MONSTERS".

Do you think that there's any significance in the changes to the blood-and-darkness area after the kaibutsu infection event?

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents; not sure if this has been mentioned before but I've always seen Sabi's disease as Meningococcal disease: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meningococcal_disease

It's associated with MODS(Multiple organ dysfunction syndrome), and by observing the many events dealing with bodily functions in the game, it doesn't seem too far-fetched to believe that she has an organ problem and has locked herself in her room for fear of being taken back to the hospital or officially quarantined(aside from the fact that she's already pretty much quarantined herself).

Also, a lot of the areas in .flow remind me of blood vessels and Mengingococcal disease is also associated with disseminated intravascular coagulation, which has to do with clotting of the blood vessels and basically goes along with development of MODS.

There's a lot of diease possibilities for Sabitsuki, but I've done my research and those are just my opinions and observations.

Part of me believes that Sabitsuki had once been in the hospital for her disease(maybe as a young child?) but ended up leaving or running away for some reason. In her subconscious mind the hospital is first portrayed as very sterile and benign, but as you progress in the area it starts to show its other parts(dilapidated, bloody, and malicious-looking). This makes me think that she maybe started to realize exactly what was going on in her body and wanted to run away, due to fear of death or progression of her illness.

EDIT: Also, if I remember correctly, you also get the Black Hood effect in the same general area as the hospital... I think that the effect possibly symbolizes Sabi trying to seperate herself from everyone else or trying to hide her disease.

Last edited 11/02/04(Fri)06:31.

>>2391

>black hood area

Minor correction, you find the black hood in the strange testing facility place behind the bar. Near the gun effect.

>>2389

The area that kind of looks like a disco, which leads to the love hotel district. It wraps on the X axis, and has those weird coral reef-like rocks. The wall there is black, with transparent lines through which we see the rainbow background. For some god-forsaken reason, they put 2 of these lines together, and if you interact with them, you open the wall and get teleported to the top of the love hotels

About the whole, I really have no idea what orifice you might be referring to. I mean, the eyes and mouth are quite normal looking, even in that mangled body. If she had entered an orifice, we'd probably be able to tell which one it was. I mean, it has one hell of a lot of pointy things

As far as the hospital is concerned, yes, it's quite obvious. That's the feeling I always got from it. A broken ECG, having to enter the area where most blood has been spilled to actually proceed, the bloody darkness which for some reason has the high speed Kaibutsu, the body... it's pretty much a given they're all connected

You mean the bloody darkness in just after the hospital? The only change I saw was the Kaibutsu getting aggressive, and that's standard when you hurt a passive Kaibutsu anywhere in the subconscious world

Also the one-eyed monster is also what's in the black haired girl's throne, so I guess we can rule out the dick theory

>>2391

I've read up a Wikipedia article on that, and a few other articles as well. It seemed to fit pretty well at first, and in the late stages a victim also seems to cough blood, which guaranteed consistency

In fact, when I reached the bit about all the negative effects it has on the heart and circulatory system I thought it might even be a better theory, but as I've read on I noticed a few things that didn't quite add up

First off, this phrase, taken directly from Wikipedia "Complications following meningococcal disease can be divided into early and late groups. Early complications include: raised intracranial pressure, disseminated intravascular coagulation, seizures, circulatory collapse and organ failure. Later complications are: deafness, blindness, lasting neurological deficits, reduced IQ, and gangrene leading to amputations."

The serious end results of the aforementioned disease aren't really represented in any part of .flow, save for the circulatory complications (hospital sound), amputation (limbless effect) and deafness. I'd probably give up the hemorrhagic fever in favour of this disease if the game's events depicted things along the lines of cranial explosions, or even if there were any serious depictions of the brain and damage done to it, which, unless I'm forgetting them, do not exist. I don't even know if there's a brain area in the body

As far as the blood clotting goes, this is something I kind of had mixed feelings about for the better part of writing this post. The game depicts blood in large quantities in quite a few areas, but unless I'm mistaken (and please correct me if I am) this disease does not affect the body in such a way that it profusely loses blood like seen in the hospital or in the bloody white room event, for example. Ultimately I'm led to believe a hemorrhagic fever still fits better in this aspect as well

There were a few things in the game that could match your theory though. The limbless effect was the first that came to mind, but to be honest I no longer think it can be related to this illness, seeing as you get this effect from a chainsaw

Most of all, I was intrigued by the deafness. I immediately remembered the whistle, which we also get in the body. Since no sound whatsoever is emitted when blown, it could very well be a metaphor for the onset (or prediction of a future onset) of deafness on Sabitsuki

So basically, from what I've read, I honestly do not believe that illness to be what is affecting her, mainly due to the heavy bleeding-themed events and areas, but also given that I couldn't find a connection between the major events in the game and the Meningococcal disease. This is by no means final, of course, and since I'm most certainly missing bits of information, do fill me in if I've said something stupid here and there

Also, due to your post, I've been thinking we may get a better level of specificity as far as the hemorrhagic fever theory goes. Looking for one that causes heart complications at an earlier stage might bring us closer to sounder interpretations

All this aside, I've been thinking. Is it possible for Sabitsuki to have harmed, or possibly even killed, one of the Kaibutsus? Maybe even getting this disease in the process? I've noticed how their faces become a sort of bloody hole not unlike what is seen in the dying girls event once you hit them, and seeing as hitting them is exactly what starts the infection, it might be more than just a metaphor

Last edited 11/02/04(Fri)09:08.

>>2394

>disco

Oh, the LSD maze.
I actually wasn't thinking of that with the rave. I was talking about the area where you get the headphone effect and can go through the neon specter gate to the hospital.
I saw the door in Moonside, but didn't know how to get there from the LSD maze.

>identify orifice, level 14 sorcerer/druid spell

I couldn't pick out any eyes, just a mouth. Well, two of them, one of which I entered. I just got the "This thing is/was alive, and is bleeding a lot".

>darkness changes

I didn't realize they all get aggressive after hitting one. Also, when I went back there, four got on screen before one hit me, and that happened fast enough I didn't even realize what had happened at first. I thought there was only one there.
Does the crowbar kaibutsu get aggressive if you hit another?

>cocks

Oh well. Sorry, Dr. Freud.

>>2395

But the rave seems kinda harmless, doesn't it? I mean, the rainbow world is right next to the seedy love hotel district. You even call it the LSD maze, it couldn't be a more fitting name

The crowbar Kaibutsu is a special event, so no. He's aggressive enough after you wave the pipe at him anyway

There's only one Kaibutsu in the bloody dark area, and there's no mention of the other 3 even in the game maker. Are you sure that was the right area?

The only place where I remember seeing 4 Kaibutsus is in the entrance before the school building, where one suddenly zips across the floor to you from below while 3 follow you from above

Yup, no cocks. Unless the black haired girl is sitting on a throne of cocks, and that would make them some pretty kinky cells

The eye's in the pic. You think we're entering through the anus? It has a slight starfish-look to it, after all, and the way to the sewers is just below it

>>2396

>harmless rave

But a rave is where you would find X, and someone selling illegal amphetamines would certainly do something like cut it with some cheap OTC med like benadryl. The raveworld is happy and enticing, because it's a party. It's just that Sabi did something naive, and everything went to bloody hell. Pun intended.

>KAIBUTSU EVERYWHERE

I must have gotten startled at the thing's sheer speed, and misremembered. The fact that I'd been awake 28 consecutive hours at the time probably contributed.

>lightning kaibutsu team

How do you get past that, anyways?

>dickthrone

Why not?

>assteef

Well, it DOES have quite immediate proximity to a reproductive tract. Perhaps the Fruedian "vagina dentata" image?

>>2397

Turn on the ghost effect and leisurely walk past them mate

Yeah, a vagina's also possible. Due to the infection and how it spreads, this way of seeing the vagina would even have some truth to it

>>2401
>ghost effect
I'm sure you've already noticed how new I am to this game, but that's one of the ones I haven't found yet. /r/ spoilers.

EDIT: NVM, found it.

Last edited 11/02/04(Fri)13:16.

>>2402

Didn't remember that, sorry. But it's more rewarding this way

It's not like that's such an amazing area. Gives a few bits of information, but nothing too great

BUMP BECAUSE NEW VERSION

"smile", says the filename. Who is he? Why is he all over the place all of a sudden?

Shooting the breeze, he's Sabitsuki's brother. That little girl? That's her before that disease shit kicked in. And remembering back to some other posts I've seen around here, she looks VAGUELY like that alternate-hair Sabi from the opening sequence and some older charsets.

Bumping this thread due to huge developments in the new version

Having played through this game's latest version today I have to say the vast majority of the new areas and events were truly impressive. The school, the children's hospital/human testing facility... So much was added, and almost all of it was top-notch in terms of atmosphere and keeping up with the game's theme

Even better, these additions all fit so very well with the theories that we discussed in this thread. Having added new blood spots and, more importantly, large blood pools in her bedroom as a result of subconscious-world events made the theory feel all the more right

Then a gigantic "Fuck you" was dropped on me as the true ending started rolling. Even though the disease theory isn't affected by it at all, the ones regarding her everyday life and the world she lives in are

It did, however, provide a few good bits of information which will allow for some solid theories about the real world. It's enough for us to make theories out of something other than pure speculation now that some background data exists

So, to those of you who have already seen all this game has to offer, what are your thoughts? What new theories have you formed?

(I've kept this as spoiler-free as possible so as not to ruin the experience to those who haven't finished the game yet. I also didn't include any new theories at the moment for this same reason. As such, please hide this thread if you don't want any accidental spoilers in the future, as it will probably get quite information- and image-heavy should the discussion start up again)

EDIT: I can't believe this took so much time to write that I missed Canta's post. Goddamned TV

Also Canta, I'll have to thank you for that post. Not very related to what you said there, but I might have just made a bit more sense out of that true ending. I'll post tomorrow to give /t/ folks a fair amount of time to hide the thread

Last edited 11/05/05(Thu)20:53.

>>2710
Whoa, wait, there's an ending now? Is there a new version out? I must have missed something.

>>2711

Didn't know about it yet anon? Yeah, a new version has been out for a few days now. There are 3 endings as far as I could tell, or rather, 2 endings, and a true ending which is basically an extended version of the 2nd one

You'd better get this thread hidden then, as I'll hopefully be starting to dump some new theories in a few hours

Alright then, time to start with the theories

Regarding your post, Canta, I've read in the other thread you haven't seen the corrupted school event yet. You should check it out as soon as possible, as it's very much related to that goth kid. Having said that, I'd have to say that he might still be Sabitsuki's older brother, even when taking in account what happens in the corrupted school. Your post was actually what made me form my present theory about what's happening in .flow's real world

Now before getting into any theories, the true ending. Maybe you haven't really noticed when you first saw it (I know I haven't), but right as Sabitsuki's charging against the robot maid, you can hear a cackle. A Kaibutsu cackle. Better yet, you can clearly see her face changing right after she sees the maid. Together with the whole child testing facility area, the implications this has are HUGE. So check it out again if you didn't notice that the first time

After a while I came up with a set of theories which might explain the new events and places. First of all, the school rooftop and the rooftop where Sabitsuki commits suicide. Just as you can see in this post's image, they're one and the same. That's where she went to spend her final moments, and also to end her life

This also gives Canta's big brother theory a push, seeing as her memories (and as such her subconscious image) of the school rooftop include an enormous entrance, which was big enough for that goth/punk character, and huge railguard, which stands at about his waist's height, much like the one in the suicide scene stands at her waist's height. I can't help but think this was clearly intentional, and was supposed to show how she only saw that school's rooftop when she was a child

All right, got most of the happenings down on this post. I'll be back tomorrow to post the actual theories, kinda sleepy at the moment

It's easier to think of theories when I'm in the middle of playing a game rather than actually thinking back on it.

SPOILER TIME

Now, this picture. I have two theories.

First Theory:
So, there was a senior that was A LOT taller than Sabi. They were a lot alike, and eventually they started to date. But being a stupid little freshman Sabi dun goof'd and became with child. That little girl with that dude? Their kid. Now, the dude cared enough to take the kid in while Sabi lost her fucking mind, and whenever she came to visit their kid would hide behind the father. So, Sabi threatened the dude with gunshots, but never shot the father or child because she loved them both. And when she tried to hit them with her handy dandy crowbar he just laughed and it didn't do anything cause he's daddy and daddy is strongest. They almost had another kid because stupid teenagers are fucking stupid, but that's where the whole "UTERUS CANCER AAAAAAAAA" thing comes in. So they lost that child.

Okay, so that's Theory One. Second Theory:
Little brother and sister, since in the picture she's much taller. There might also be a chance Sabi might be their mom. I have no idea anymore, the first theory shot down what I was going to say in this second theory.

And you know what? I completely forgot how to reach these two. It was easy though...

>>2715
Okay yeah. I've been to the corrupted school now, and... i have no wordssssss. Maybe he'd seen the kaibutsu/disease Sabi that stalks the player around on the way there and had barricaded himself in the basement to avoid it and then when normal-ish Sabi enters he's all "OH SHIT IT FOUND ME" and defends himself...?

Still working on getting the main ending, though. By the time you read this I might've.

>>2716
Wander around the rusty pier place for a bit. You'll find it.

I had this other odd sort of just out-of-the-blue theory that the THING in the picture is her mom or something... Like, how you see her in the room at the end of the first "facility", and then in the other one the door's gone and little!Sabi is in the first room. Maybe the disease was gender-linked-genetic (there's a proper term for this, i can't recall) or something. Oh, not to mention that the event... or this map... SOMETHING pertaining to this event's called "mother". It might just be referring to the source of the disease thing, but yeah. And how all those little tiny replications of her are all standing around? Maybe Sabi knows that her mom passed it to her and so she sort of personifies it that way or something like that...

oh, and please pardon my valleygirl-esque speech patterns and editing like a madman

Last edited 11/05/07(Sat)18:50.

>>2716

You can get to it by exiting the school. To reach the school just go down the elevator you have to break into, right before the robot maid hotel

>>2718

Ah, but you see, the corrupted school event isn't that simple. I'll get back to that after this bit. I've also read your mother theory, and as far as the game files are concerned that map's name seems to be "Ghost". Can you tell me where you found it was called mother?

Now, more evidence that he's Sabitsuki's brother. First, their hair styles are practically the same. Check the image out. Now, if you go to their house and use the steel pipe on them, you'll notice he'll have a steel pipe as well now. I've always felt that his smile was one of kindness, even though the way it appeared was a bit unexpected. Because of this and how they lived in the slums, I've felt this was a memory of one occasion where she grabbed a pipe (hell, might even be a pipe he kept around for protection), after which her brother took it from her with a kind smile, like one does when saying "No, no. That's dangerous"

Back to the corrupted school. If you go back to the school's basement, you'll notice not only her brother, but Sabitsuki, herself, is holding a steel pipe. Worse, you hear a not-too-kind laughter coming from him after he gets you. Worse yet... you ARE the Kaibutsus wandering around in that school. This type of Kaibutsu is unique to this event, so it has quite a deep meaning. This is right up the alley of the theory I was about to post a few hours ago

Those of you who followed this thread since its early stages will know both I and anon theorized Sabitsuki would have a flesh-eating disease, something along the lines of Ebola. I went through this new version still believing this to be true, as a great deal of events fit with this theory pretty well, but after seeing the ending and thinking things through, I don't believe it to be the case anymore

Anymore, more to come later. Still organizing my mind so I don't miss anything

Last edited 11/05/08(Sun)06:10.

>>1851

A-ha, here's that other thread.

Who do you guys think the RoboMaid was? Evidently, she was a real person because she appears in the real world. But... who is she?

Also, here's an interesting theory that was in the .flow thread in /fg/:

>Turns out Sabitsuki wants to cut out some evil shit out of her, possibly cancer or something or a parasytical twin or whatever. So she goes flowing, and the endings are bad, OK and good one, it seems - the one with three boxes being the best one. Meidobot kills Rust, not Sabitsuki, so, like, Rust is some evil part of her, hence the name - like, Corrupted or something. Meidobot actually helps you, and the girl walking past all the ingame characters is Sabitsuki, now devoid of Rust. And the lift to Rust is symbolical, since it goes down and may or may not represent subconscious shit. So, happy ending, no need for concrete!

I like this interpretation of it. It makes it alot less depressing.

>>2725

That IS an interesting way to see things. Very upbeat. Even though there are no pointers to cancer or something along those lines, I like how things were put together, and it does give the game a good ending (and fuck, it DID need one)

I just can't agree on the bit about the robot maid being good, though. All the places where she appears have such a heavily negative connotation to it, after all. What's worse, you only see them outside the child testing facility. And it makes much more sense to think that she indeed does serve a purpose that has her cutting limbs for some reason, since you get the limbless effect from a chainsaw that's right next to one

I have a theory ready to try and explain most of these things, was just waiting to see if Canta or someone can point me towards where it says that the dying girls event is called "Mother". There's no sense in typing a theory out if there's a chance it's wrong right from the start

I've got the impression that Sabi managed to merge two worlds. This actually explains the appearance of the meidorobot.

>>2726
brb, a-huntin'

... Okay, I swear it was here before. Golly... I'll keep looking. Everything in RPGM is all garbled anyway, maybe that's it.

could you post the theory anyway? i'd like to hear it.
moreover, what's going to determine whether it's right or wrong when there ARE no clear pointers to anything specific?

Last edited 11/05/11(Wed)10:52.

>>2728

That is very true. No actual facts were presented outside of what we saw in the game, so any theory may or may not be the right one

More than anything, though, I aim to analyze all the points of view when thinking up a theory. I'm hoping to come up with one people think is "likely"; something that might make a lot of people think "This is a good way of explaining the mindfuck I just saw" after reading it. Ultimately, a logic (as much as possible) base for others to build their theories on

Before the theory, I'll just have to take back the bit I said on one of the previous posts about Sabitsuki's brother. The way he takes out the pipe coupled with that weird laughter and wierder smile had me saying "what the fuck did I post" when I read it again. That being said, I'd like to know what you guys think on that reaction of his, or rather, on Sabitsuki's memories of it

I'll be posting my theory in a couple of hours or so

Last edited 11/05/11(Wed)18:56.

>>2725
That's an awesome theory and makes the game look and feel so much... well... better, but I have a question regarding that theory.

Rust wakes up and goes outside where she's killed by maidobot. Her sprite is (while in the room anyways) the non detailed version unlike the detailed version which belongs to Rust, not Sabitsuki. (that's how I always kinda told them apart.. one is "darker" and more realistic. The other is "cleaner" looking). Is the getting your legs cut off all a dream? Is this reality or not?

Also, any theories why Sabitsuki's sprite changes to a more detailed version when she goes into the post-24effect flow? Is this to make it look darker/more realistic since this part of the game is probably the most dangerous? Or maybe it's just a representation of Rust's darker and more evil mind?

Last edited 11/05/11(Wed)19:04.

>>2731
Wait, she does what now...

WELL BLESS MY SOUL WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT I DON'T EVEN OH MY GOD WHAT IS GOING ON

>>2730

As illiterate and overused as this reaction is... Brix were shat. I knew SOMETHING happened when you tried attacking them, and didn't know what, and that kind of made me jump a bit. And get the heck out of there. As for WHY he'd do that in connection to the other theories... I've really got nothing GOOD, sorry.

Last edited 11/05/11(Wed)20:39.

I think that Sabitsuki was still in flow when the Meidobot "killed" her. Why else would not only the maid, but the
little black cancer/disease/parasite girls be there? To build on what >>2725 said, I think this was Sabitsuki's subconcional way to
"kill" her bad side (Rust) and set herself free from all the pain, anger, misery and depression that Rust had held
Sabitsuki back with. Also, I can't help but feel the headphones during the end credits are a reference to flowbeat. (The end
theme is appropriately titled "flowbeet", so I have a feeling that's what lol had in mind when making that small detail.)
Notice the headphones sprite used during the walking sequence of the ending is the more detailed "Rust" sprite with Headphones on. If we're saying the the sprite is
seperating Sabitsuki and Rust, does that mean that's NOT Rust walking..? I don't think it is. I think lol just wanted to use
the more detailed sprite because it's nicer looking. Wonder why lol didn't use that sprite throughout the whole game... maybe it
IS meant to symbolize Rust in some way? Holy crap this ending is confusing.

Last edited 11/05/11(Wed)22:02.

For anyone who's curious about the little girl with black hair who constantly appears throughout the game, lol constantly draws her. One of her pictures really made me curious. It's entitled "Sister". http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=13715036
Also see http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=9215213
and http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=2841263
(There's alot more. I'm not 100% sure the girl in these pics and the girl from .flow are the same, but they sure do look alike.)

There's also other pics of her, usually holding a knife.

Oh, and here's a pic of the RoboMaid.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=13570534
.....

First off, I feel really stupid, but it took me until now to understand the robot maids weren't robots at all. Just noticed the human hands and ears while looking through the image files. They're people using gas masks

With that out of the way, I'll try exposing my theory in short bits

>>2731

As far as dreams/subconscious worlds and reality are concerned, I would have to say the ending was either not reality, or it was reality through the eyes of the new and nearly-losing-control Rust. You see, if you interact with the 3 objects required for the true ending in the post-24 effects world and wake up, you'll notice you now have 3 weird, square-like objects with red IV lines around your computer (see the image). Undoubtedly, they're connected to the objects you interacted with, but I'm not sure what to make of them. It crossed my mind that maybe she was connected to them all along, and just now woke up. But, then, what about those blood stains all over her room?

The theory I came up with as being the most likely one is that the whole game, up until after you go through the Rust event in the end, is played out inside Sabitsuki's head. Her mind, so to speak, is what was "covered in rust". She explored her subconscious but there are areas which she can't access, most likely blocked off for her protection. Eventually, though, upon recovering all 24 effects, she feels she's at her limit. She has the option to commit suicide to prevent the things to come. Choosing to push further, her control over her subconscious fades, and her subconscious world becomes Rust's

She can now access the blocked-off areas, even as Rust is fighting to destroy her remaining lucidity. Finally, having accessed the remaining areas, which apparently represent her most traumatic experience and worse fears. Using this as a means to open the path to Rust, she goes through wave after wave of demon assaults, reaching the very limits of her sanity (literally. One more demon than the ones she faces in those corridors would make her head crack). She pushes herself as much as she is able to, and blacks out as she is in the process of striking Rust down. In the end, her journey was to no avail

What is that? Why does she lose in the end? Well, tune in next week, for another episode of...

No, really now. I'll post the 2nd part tomorrow. It's about 6:30 AM over here and I'm spent, typing this post took me about 1 and a half hours and made me go through about 3 different versions of my theory

EDIT: fucked up again... and this time I let 2 posts go by. Also, PSI posted an interesting pic of a robot maid for those who weren't convinced by those 3 skin-colored pixels in her model

Last edited 11/05/11(Wed)22:45.

Hey, sorry to blast your emotions guys, but Rust/Sabitsuki turns into a kaibutsu at the ending. I believed that there was a disease. Oreko was her only friend, she only survived due to being in an isolated room. The cancer woman was the first victim, so she believes that somehow she is 'inside' of her, infecting her. Also, the ending, you can clearly see Sabitsuki's face turning into that of a kaibutsu before she commits suicide. I have a feeling that she was somehow controlled.

>>2739
see
>>2715

also, she goes to the school rooftop in her last, borderline-sane moments

I don't think Sabitsuki is her actual name. Of course, it doesn't matter to her at this point.

Sabitsuki means "rusted/rusty/with rust/covered in rust/rust on it". It's a pun on the theme and Madotsuki (of course, the only thing that made the name "Windowed" relevant was the fact that it was her shirt pattern. Funny thing is that "rusty" sounds like an actual name.

If they're gas mask people, maybe she was in a hospital where people with the disease grew up quarantined, and after a while they fully rusted and looked like Kaibutsu. I think her hair color is part of the disease; all the Kaibutsu have it, and people don't normally have white hair unless they're albino or are really old. Since her rooftop looks like the school rooftop, maybe it was also a school (because they had to get education...) and maybe the corrupted school event, and maybe all the Kaibutsu in general, was a nightmare of all her friends having become Kaibutsu.

Actually, it doesn't look that much like a school...

Last edited 11/05/12(Thu)13:16.

>>2741
I was of the belief that is how she saw her school. As full of things that wanted to hurt her, which includes the guy at the end who smacked her down.

Here's a Wiki where we can discuss this shit on a forum in a more organized fashion.

http://dotflow.wikidot.com/

Maybe she could be really old, and she is in an old-folks home, and the gas mask people could be caretakers.

her mom is called "devils" in the files

>>2747
i saw it SOMEWHERE in the game. oh well, disregarding the filename bit, i still think it's an O.K. theory...

>>2748
yeah it's hard to prove or disprove theories. just speculation really. even with the final ending, so much of flow is open ended. D:

>>2741

>people don't normally have white hair unless they're albino or really old

Not true, two of my cousins (eight and ten years old) and their mother have white hair, not blonde, white. Their skin isn't pale and their eyes aren't red, so they're not albino. (and they weren't bleeding through their skulls and carrying steel pipes around last time I checked, so don't worry about that, lol)

Supposedly being born with white hair is as rare as red hair, but it happens, and it's genetic.

Last edited 11/05/15(Sun)12:39.

That makes sense.

However, if Sabitsuki was born with white hair, then the girl with the brother-looking boy can't be a younger Sabitsuki. That doesn't really do anything to discount either theory, but it does mean that you can't have both at once (unless you subscribe to the additional theory that she dyed her hair black to imitate him?)

Last edited 11/05/16(Mon)06:48.

Major spoilers, of course.

I know for one thing a certain scene in the Rust chapter reenforces the theory that Oreko is Sabitsuki.

Remember the area with what we assumed was a bloody and beaten Sabitsuki holding hands with Oreko?

I think that the bloody and beaten Sabitsuki is actually Rust. As for Oreko, well, she's missing from the place in the Rust chapter, the back room is open, and just take a look at who's in that tank, floating in the same position as a certain helmet-wearing girl...

I also don't think those demon guys are demons at all. Look closely after you've taken a bunch of hits, they're the same shape as Rusts' mangled body if she didn't have clothes and her hair was cropped out.

Or, that could also mean that it's her turn to do whatever Oreko was doing.

During the rust chapter, when you go interact with the big Sabi in the tank, is it me or does she look pregnant? I mean, for me at least when I saw that I was like "why is she preggers?"

Also, I try to think about any concepts from the flow world in an order that seems likely to have happened in her past, at least for the ones that seem tor represent her past.

I think this story starts at the school, with Sabi as a young child. To recap someone elses theory, I agree that it is compelling that her age when she was in school was young if the boy on the roof is huge compared to her, but still at about the same size as the railing. So anyway, even at this age Sabi is already a hikikomori-ish, at least shy. She doesn't talk to anyone, and no one talks to her. But she does make one friend.

In comes ++. My version refers to the effect as tattoo, so I'll go off of that and propose that the individual had some strange eye tattoo or at least something else unusual about his eyes in Sabi's past. In this scenario of mine, Sabi first meets ++ on the roof, he's older and bigger than she is, and as a key moment of her life, his appearance is static and he appears as a giant. They become friends, Sabi eventually visits him and meets his younger sister, who is either as shy as Sabi or is outright afraid of her. I'll continue with the latter assumption. +_+ is very protective of his sister.

Meanwhile Sabi is already feeling the effects of whatever disease she has and +_+ and others are getting suspicious and afraid of her, while she continues to try and hide her condition. I'm lead to believe she was sick in school because of the bleeding mouth imagery.

One day something happens, someone maybe even ++ takes her to the basement and something happens. I am believing it is some kind of ostracism, maybe ++ telling Sabi to stay away from him and his sister. This kills Sabi in the emotional sense, and she's once again alone with only her disease to keep her company.

I think after this event the rest of the people in Sabi's life discover she is sick and then she's taken to a hospital. Obviously things don't go right. In the hospital in the flow world, you walk the halls and sometimes end up at an end and sometimes it keeps looping on itself, making me think of Sabi being carted around the hospital as people tried to find out what was wrong with her, going around in circles.

During this time Sabi was probably very bored when she wasn't scared out of her wits, and came up with an imaginary friend Oreko to help pass the time, maybe watching the wiggling lines on her heart monitor and coming up with the green/blue techno world along side the ocrean her imaginary friend stays at.

I like this idea because of the already proposed idea that Oreko is Sabi, and if Oreko is an imaginary friend, then Sabi and Oreko would indeed be one and the same, and would fit in with the theme of Sabi hating herself.

Last edited 11/05/21(Sat)16:59.

>>2778
Augh I didn't know that a underscore would make italics, that's so silly.

Above ++ is referring to the boy with those eyes.

Continuing on with this story, the doctors make a decision to have Sabi moved somewhere. I am not sure which one of these it is, but it is either a) A children's hospital (previously mentioned), b) a testing facility (also previously mentioned), or c) a hospice (I don't think someone has proposed this yet).

If we take the testing facility route, or even just any route where science gone wrong in the real world is considered (which I think is a kind of leap but if a robo-maid murdered me in the real world I wouldn't say this is jumping the shark), then Sabi becomes part of an experiment on other children suffering from the same condition she is. This would explain why it is both a hospital and totally apart from the first hospital most of us will have found, especially playing since the early versions of .flow.

This could also help to explain the "asylum" section, which may represent the time when Sabi was being admitted to the new facility.

Thinking of this new facility as a children's hospital or a hospice with others of the same condition gives us a lot to discuss, but if we continue on the idea that Sabi and the others were being tested on then we can fit in the Kaibutsu, as others have also proposed, only now we have a timeline.

The testing doesn't work on most of the children. Treating the elevator as symbolic of the timeline of the facility itself, we see that the testing either kills most of the other children, accelerates their condition, or simply that it was working for only a select few children and the upper floor is actually Sabi watcing the other kids die from their condition as the treatment doesn't work but seems to be working on her.

But there is a dark side to the treatment. It seems to keep the children alive, but the outward effects (cancer-like, flesh eating, necrosis or what have you) seems to still occur, and causes the children to experience a kind of psychosis or other change of mental state. This results in the kaibutsu, of which Sabi could be becoming.

I have to end this here though because where it goes from there or how to work in the cancerous or cancer-like symbolism with the open sore in the hospice during the rust chapter that leads to the dying girls event also found in the apartments is too hard for me presently. I'd be interested to hear other people's ideas on what I've discussed as well as additions or alterations to my timeline.

To recap,
Sabi is a student, and loses a friend and is traumatized by it.
Sabi is admitted to a hospital.
Sabi is moved to some other kind of facility.

I think these guys are Sabitsuki's brother and sister. I think this because the drawing of this girl was entitled "Sister" (see my earlier post for the actual pic), and the way she's hiding behind the boy is almost like the way a little girl always hides behind their big brother and see them as a means of protection or whatever. Possibly, this boy was Sabitsuki's older brother (due to the size of him on the rooftop). I think he gives you the tattoo effect because he got a tattoo one day and since Sabitsuki looked up to him, she probably wanted one too.
Um.. I think the reason Sabitsuki's supposed "sister" is hiding behind their supposed brother is because she's afraid of Sabitsuki's disorder. Sabitsuki's personality may be changing as well, she's clearly disturbed and probably has been this way for a long time, so perhaps around the time both girls were young Sabitsuki's disorder started to kick in with whatever side effects. I also think that the guy is Sabitsuki's brother based on his hair. Look at it; it's exactly the same right down the the very last pixel, only a different color. And notice that both "sister's" and the brother's hair are pitch black, yet Sabitsuki's is white as snow. I don't think this(the white hair) is a side effect of the disorder she clearly has (we can conclude she has SOME sort of sickness just due to the heavy emphasis on hospitals in the game). I think the white hair on Sabitsuki may have come from either one of her parents or it's simply dyed that color. I'm not saying it COULDN'T come from the disorder, but I just think it's kinda unlikely.

Also, the reason the brother appears on the rooftop is because they went to school together or something and that's where Sabitsuki found out about his tattoo. The vibe on the rooftop is... I don't know how to explain it. It's like before a tornado almost. You know something bad's gonna happen, and you're just waiting to see what actually does? Idk, I can't describe the feeling that place gives me, but it's not a good one. Oh, and notice how the rooftop on the school has the same BGM as the one Sabitsuki goes to during the endgame sequences. This may just be because they're both wind loops, so it may hold no real significance, but still. Perhaps the roof Sabitsuki is on isn't on her Apartment and she didn't just go down the hall, but maybe she went all the way back to the school and up to the rooftop just to relive those memories/commit suicide? (the question is, if this is the school's rooftop, why would she want to commit suicide here of all places?)

Last edited 11/05/21(Sat)18:47.

>>2779
Just call him "Smile" since that's what lol named him. The maids are wearing gas masks, btw. You can see it looking at them from the side and looking at lol's art of them.

Hm. About that disease thing. I think the body area represents, well, the inside of Sabitsuki's body. I also think the black-haired girls are not "cancer" as most people were stating before, I think they are Sabitsuki's immune system, and the demon guys are the disease. As you know there are a few places in the body area full of the demon guys, which leads me to believe those are the areas where the disease has taken the worst toll so far. The fact that some of the damaged looking areas are in the shape of a stomach and cervix lead me to believe that it is causing her to both vomit and piss blood at this point (notice that one demon-infested area has a relatively clean mouth in the background, and the other is drenched in blood), and maybe that's exactly what she's doing at certain points in the game where the huge blood spots suddenly appear in her room, all over her walls and floor.

Then comes the Rust chapter. Let's assume despite Rust possibly being a separate entity that flow is still the embodiment of Sabitsuki. The demon guys are everywhere now. Not only that, the black haired girls are dying left and right. My theory: Shit's getting serious now. Sabitsuki's immune system is shutting down. The disease has spread throughout her body, it's causing damage all over. Her brain is being affected. Her damaged endocrine system is malfunctioning, too many hormones are being secreted and it's giving her abnormally strong emotions (the game's mood gets radically darker as a result) and heightened senses (better sight = more detailed sprite) and causing her stress levels to skyrocket. Because of this, her neurons are being overworked and destroyed (it's worth noting that the nexus is black and a very bright electricky yellow-orange and covered with spots of blood-red at this point in the game, which could be taken to represent her strained, damaged neurons) and it's screwing with her mind, bringing back painful memories, giving her hallucinations, driving her to madness.

I don't know, it's just an idea, I'm sure some of you could use this to come up with a better theory.

Last edited 11/05/21(Sat)18:56.

>>2780
adding to that very last bit there, there's a rather long black screen between the ending and the moment where she opens the door (And there might have been trailing footsteps in the background; I can't really remember too well at the moment). this could represent the walk to the school or something like that i don't knowklfj;sf

>>2781
i don't have anything to help out at all i just want to say i really like this detailing of the aesthetic changes in the rust chapter

>>2780
I'd like to note that the BG image for this bedroom in the game files is "family" (kazoku), so I'd say there's no doubt about it being Sabi's family.

oh man the only thing I talk about lately is game filenames

Last edited 11/05/22(Sun)00:21.

The demons look like red blood cells.

>>2780
don't mean to come out as aggressive but most of that was already said throughout the thread. there's even a post comparing the school rooftop and the suicide/robomaid incident location. You don't have to read all the posts, but do at least read the ones after the bump

>>2786
that's a very important contribution as well. it's the closest thing we have to factual information

>>2786
Oh wow so much for my idea of smile being just a friend from school
I wanted to double check and its further supported by the outdoor area being named 兄妹. I don't know how to read it exactly but I remember those being the characters for older brother and younger sister respectively. By itself it could simply refer to the fact those two characters are related to each other as older brother and younger sister, and the same could be said with 家族, but even if it is still somewhat subjective, who here is really going to ignore that anyway?

Regardless I still get the impression Sabi is afraid of them. Specifically, I think they used to have a close but strained relationship that became sour and now she's afraid of Smile. That's just my impression, but I definitely think, at the least, Sabi and Smile have a bad relationship during the games events.

Bamp I love .flow and I want moar theories

Omega Huge Spoiler-filled Ending Theory

I believe the scene where the Maid cuts Sabitsuki's feet off with the chainsaw represents Sabitsuki getting her legs amputated (most likely because of her disease or whatever). Notice how when the miad pulls out the chainsaw, Sabitsuki doesn't try to run. She just looks down and accepts it. Most likely when she was given the choice weather to cut off her legs or live, she didn't want to get the operation and was just going to let herself die, maybe because she was suicidal and just simply had no will to live anymore. This may be represented throughout the game by her constant death (bar event, slime event, school event, ect.). Also notice how some of the effects have things to do with her limbs, namely the Tumbling doll and Machine. (Tumbling doll removes her legs and arms, Machine replaces them with mechanical parts). The ghost and corpse effects could symbolize how she wants to die and is simply waiting for the disease to kick in and do its thing. I think that after "killing herself" in the post 24-effects flow, she finally made the decision to just go on with life, no matter how painful it may be, and to amputate her legs. On the rooftop where the maid "kills" Sabitsuki, I think this represents Sabitsuki getting the actual surgery. I thought about maybe the Maid being the nurse who assists, but I just can't quite see that being the case. The maid might be someone who was close to Sabitsuki and was constantly urging and begging Sabitsuki to get the surgery so she could live. After the amputation, we see the Maid carrying Sabitsuki's body off. Probably just the maid giving comfort to Sabitsuki after the surgery and "picking her back up". As for the screen where Sabitsuki's just lying in the middle of the screen, this might possibly be how Sabitsuki felt after the operation: Usless, alone, sad, ect. But then, a miracle. Somehow Sabitsuki got a leg transplant and got new legs. Now that she has new legs, she takes a stride down memory lane. The final scene where Sabitsuki is walking pridefully past everything she's seen in flow is possibly her way of seeing how she's overcome so much.

And finally, someone said earlier that they didn't think the maid was helpful. While I agree she appears in some of the most of the "bad" places where danger lurks, she actually helps Sabitsuki in all these places. Look....
-In the bar, she gives Sabitsuki drinks and even a new menu type
-She bows and offers you the tumbling doll effect, possibly her way of saying "Please get the operation..." since you get the effect from a chainsaw, which is what the maid uses to cut Sabitsuki's legs off
-In the end, the maid finally gives Sabitsuki the surgery she needs to live

So if you look at it that way, she doesn't seem so bad, despite her appearance and event locations.

Last edited 11/05/28(Sat)13:58.

>>2830
you make the maid sound like some sort of guardian angel... or a mother, or some friend who can be there for Sabi. Could reoccuring characters be friends?

>>2830

Really? I mean, you REALLY just described getting the tumbling doll effect, or quadruple amputation, as a positive thing?

Also, during the ending, she doesn't just take a step forward and accept it. She smiles in a rather disturbing way and cackles just like a Kaibutsu does. Heck, the maid actually takes a step back when she sees Rust charging towards her. She's obviously something dangerous at that point

Last edited 11/05/28(Sat)18:21.

>>2832

Unfortunately, some people end up having amputations to save their life as a result of their limbs being so badly damaged/diseased, so it is pretty plausible. Chill.

>She smiles in a rather disturbing way and cackles just like a Kaibutsu does. Heck, the maid actually takes a step back when she sees Rust charging towards her. She's obviously something dangerous at that point

Then she probably got violent or angry with the Maid's perpetual nagging and attempted to charge, but right then her legs gave out and dearest meidobot went right ahead with the whole "hey let's just give her the damn operation" thing?

>>2833

It's not plausible at all. Even if someone has to undergo such an ordeal I can't possibly believe they would see it as something positive, regardless of whether it was for the best or not

Yeah, if I saw someone with a running chainsaw pointed at me I'd probably get fed up with their nagging and charge towards them. Not really

>>2834

They never mentioned Sabitsuki herself seeing it as a positive thing, hell, that's the main point of the theory. Why are you getting butthurt over a theory anyways?

>>2846

1- Neither did I. Regardless, someone had to look at it that way, since that's one of the theory's propositions
2- Go learn the definition of butthurt

>>2830
that's a very... different way of seeing things. really unlikely too

>>2846
I think his point is that the choice of the word "positive" is a bit insensitive. Perhaps "double edged sword" would work better.

Although it doesn't matter because I don't agree with your idea either, although it was intriguing. But I personally think the limbless effect is simply a nod to YumeNikki for its headless effect. I mean that's what .flow's answer to medamaude was, it was monoko :P Then there IS the fact that the gas mask girl steps away from Sabi as she starts getting her kaibutsu on.

Anyway guys I'd like to ask a question. The "tattoo" effect. Is that really what its Japanese name is? I'm trying to decide if the eye posters in the school are Smile's or not. And if they're not tattoo's maybe scars? Hmm.

The word is "bittersweet".

>>2882

PSI was very (VERY) sedulous in the research he did for the translation. You can even see in /fg/'s .flow thread how much thought he put into naming the tumbling doll effect. I'm willing to risk saying he was equally careful when naming the remaining effects

I think it's pretty safe to assume those posters throughout the school are references to Smile's own tattoos seeing as the cross-tattoo eye symbol is unique to him. Furthermore, everything about the school areas is strongly connected to him. Even the Rust ending object you have to interact with in the school's basement is called Smile

This fellow. Odd he's been around so long and not a word's been said.

I sort of like to think of him as a rather delusional man who was apartment-neighbors with Sabitsuki for a while. His apartment was full of a variety of plants that took up a majority of the space and turned the small room into a sort of labyrinthine space. Sabi and him were sort of friends, they chat sometimes and have tea and whatnot and they were buds until maybe something happened and she never went back again. Maybe he was killed among his plants or just got really pissed at her one day and scared her off.

>>2884
Yeah the school is my favorite area, I spent a long time there when I first came across it. It felt like I was really learning something (lol) when I was there, like shit was going down. So cool. For awhile I thought Oreko was the most significant character! XD

He is rather fat.

Also, Shidezu (I just made up a name), to the right, always struck me as a character who was always there at uncomfortable places, but did nothing, good or bad. Just stayed there, watching.

I don't know why, but I kind of miss that dude walking around in the apartment. He never did anything, but still.

Slowpoking quite a bit here, but since I've finally picked the game up after having last played it on 0.08, I'd like to... ask something, because I don't really have any theories about anything. Sorry, I'm bad with that kind of stuff.
What about the area with the plants everywhere? While exploring it a bit, I noticed some disturbing things about it.

1. Both the plant effect and the little girls who are everywhere in there have plants blooming through their entire bodies. What could this mean?
2. That area is the exact same one as that area in which you find the girl behind vines, the gas mask effect and so on, the only difference is how the vines and other plantlike things are much more developed.
3. In one of its exits, you end up in the corridor with the bloodied little girls everywhere, nobody in (supposedly) Sabitsuki's room, and that one black-haired girl (who strangely resembles >>2718)

in the rightmost room. Somewhere in the way there, there's this white room full of blood pools and bloodied little girls literally EVERYWHERE, which are all walking left. In that map, there's also 6 little girls circling that one black-haired girl we all know and love, and something I forgot in the only exit from that area. I think it was some blue maze which leads to that tube Sabitsuki's in, in the post-24 effects world.
4. It's connected to the hospital/human testing facility/creepy shit/whatever. There's even a room with those heartbeat things and a plantified nurse in it, although it leads to the area I mentioned in 2. Conversely, some of the plantified little girls can also be seen in the deeper exists of the hospital, without the plant effect.

I don't think this could be something as light as "the hospital just tried to use some herbs on them, but there were really a lot of herbs", but I guess that's a way to see it.

There are upstairs and downstairs in corrupted school basement judging by the sprite. Can you go downstairs, or do both go to the same place?

>>2892

No reason to think that was wrong. She was most surely the most important NPC in .flow, at least up until the 0.10 version came out

>>2917

Regardless of what you said about being bad with this kind of stuff, you're a smart one. No one in the thread even so much as touched the subject of the area where the vines/testing facility/hell-tech (that's what I call the orange alien-like machines) themes merge, but you went straight to where the money is. Even better, you're also paying a good deal of attention to the little black-haired girl and her part in the story

I have a massive theory that is mostly completed, which hopefully can explain the bits you have inquired about in a way most would agree with. However, I've never felt completely satisfied with certain parts of this theory's remainder, and as such feel it's unfair to just release it. Either way, I think you can arrive at a similar conclusion yourself if you think about it for a while. You are certainly in the right direction, after all

Do let us know when you come up with something. Even if you arrive at a farfetched conclusion, getting there is half the fun

>>2917
Correction, the white bloodied room with little girls walking left (pictured) has an elevator, which leads to the "clean" version of the SHIT JUST GOT REAL corridor I mentioned in (3) on that post. Said elevator also doesn't do that weird thing where it looks like it's failing, by the way. I find it... weird how apparently you're only supposed to get there after seeing all the shit that's gotten real in that place, at least if you get there from the hospital. This one room is much more out of the way than that other corridor, though. I'll grab a screenshot later, if nobody else does it by the next time I post.

>>2926
I feel a bit weird being complimented like this. Thanks. Well, the only thing I can think so far, putting together that whole part with everything we've been theorizing so far, is how the hospital came across that flesh-eating disease and tried to solve it with herbal treatment. Literally. As I said on that post, it's just too light of a theory for that place, I guess, so I'll try to think of something else when I'm not feeling too lazy.

Hey, I know it's been brought up before, but I have just started doing some research into binaural beats, and it sounds EXACTLY like Sabitsuki's dream-room. So in case that wasn't pretty firmly established before....

Here's some food for thought, sorry if it's been brought up before.
What if some of the bloody kids in that one hospital/testing area are the kaibutsu as kids? (It took me two seconds to come up with that, but...)

>>2940

That's right. Every grown-up Kaibutsu has an identical child match in the human testing facility (including Sabitsuki)

>>2942
Then what of the others?

>>2943

What others do you speak of?

>>2944

seven of them not including sabi. i love that kaibutsu thing, and slap myself repeatedly for not piping up with it first thing. but what about those three black-haired girls, and the fourth white-haired? could it indicate a fourth kaibutsu design, or just another child altogether?

also, unrelated, but the sabi one looks like it's doing jumping jacks when it's all un-animated like that. ahaha~

>>2945
Is every one for sure that they're all girls? I was never really sure. (Either that or I don't pay attention to gender details that much in these games.) Because if's the black-haired one's a boy, it could be Smile...I don't know.
Also, I cannot stop imagining little!Sabi doing jumping jacks.

>>2945

Yeah, and I actually thought I pointed it out before, in a previous post where I talked about Sabitsuki actually being the corrupted school Kaibutsus. I was going through most Kaibutsu places looking for matches, and only when I went there again did I realize that it was a model unique to that event (completely missed that it was Sabitsuki the first couple of times around). Glad to see so many people were thinking along these lines

Back to your question, I've never thought of the black-haired kids as Kaibutsus. Rather, I've always seen them like the generic kids you see at school. The Parade section of the testing facility also has those kids, but none of them are showing the usual signs of a Kaibutsu degeneration. Also, the "past" version of the Parade location (the one accessible through the place on >>2928 's image) has no regular kids inside (see the attached image)

As for the rest of them, 3 of them are quite good matches with the fully-matured Kaibutsus. And while I have nothing to back it up with, I do believe the two above Sabitsuki (in the pic) are from the same line of Kaibutsus, mostly due to their similarities. We can see that, as kids, most don't have the characteristic Kaibutsu white hair yet, so they might just be 2 of the same kind, albeit at different stages of the degenerative process

Having said that, if could of course be something else entirely. It could just be a similar Kaibutsu line that suffered from even worse effects than the remainder of them and didn't even make it to maturity, for example

>>2946

I never thought that the 2nd and 3rd models were girls. Not to say that they aren't, of course. They might be, but I never thought of the gender of those kids as something relevant when so much weird stuff is going on in that place

Last edited 11/06/12(Sun)16:14.

I don't really know if this is productive at all, but the little!Sabi from >>2945 shares her color scheme and shading and with that of rust!Sabi. Just thought I'd point that out, whether it was just a stylistic choice and would go better with her rather bleak location or if it's actually something significant...

>>2947
Maybe the black-haired kids just ARE those sort of hundred blank faces in the crowd, and that DOES fit quite well, but where's the fun of that? :P Maybe they were sort of... carriers of the disease, in a way. Like, they were known to have contracted the virus or had the wacky gene but weren't exhibiting the symptoms just yet, or likely wouldn't, but still had to be kept in quarantine as a method to eliminate it altogether. Maybe, whether as-well-as or as-opposed-to the former, they were kept there be more easily experimented upon for a cure/treatment since they weren't all sickly-falling-apart. Hence the majority of plant-girls bearing the dark(er) hair colors.

aah, i've already edited this like three times. But this also slightly negates my last sort of shooting-the-breeze about the apartment man being just a rather delirious botany-freak.

Last edited 11/06/14(Tue)10:25.

So, uhm, hi! I have a theory myself, but it's not really disease-related.

When I first played through the game, I got a huuuuuge 'school shooting' vibe from the corrupted school and 'smile'. My theory is that 'smile' is Sabitsuki's older brother who took care of her and their younger sister after their mother died giving birth. As a result, they were pretty poor and lived in the slums, and were constantly mocked at school by the popular kids (the kaibutsu). So one day the older brother just crumbles under the pressure of providing for his sisters and enduring the bullying at school and...snaps. And goes on a killing spree at school with a hammer and handgun...killing the 'kaibutsu' but maiming and killing many other students (including the younger sister) in the process. Sabitsuki ends up having to kill him by bludgeoning him to death with a steel pipe, and is afterwards taken to the hospital with the other injured children, many of whom die.

>>2952

The way he reacts to the handgun isn't particularly indicative of anything, other than desire to protect his little sister. The way he reacts to the steel pipe by bringing up his hammer with a mad smile, now that's something worth mentioning. As far as your theory goes, the handgun isn't really depicted anywhere else in connection to Smile (hell, is it even depicted anywhere else at all?). Also, it's Sabitsuki who gets killed in the event, not Smile. As far as I know there are no events of him dying, school or otherwise

>>2951

By all means, lots of edits means lots of thought being put into what you want to convey, and that's always a good thing. And regarding the little Sabitsuki having the same colour set as Rust, I don't think it holds any particular meaning. Of course, I have nothing to back that up, so my opinion on that is as good anyone else's

NOW you're getting there. You see, of all the Kaibutsu kids, only Sabitsuki got the "plant" treatment (assuming this is simply a virus/disease treatment, which I seriously doubt). This is most likely the reason why her degeneration symptoms (both physical and mental) only began shortly after the point where the game started. You can see both the little plant-Sabitsuki and the already-deteriorating kid Kaibutsus right outside of the little room where you get the flower menu theme, along with some ordinary kids, both usual ones and plant-grafted ones

Make no mistake, I do think the ordinary kids are there for a reason. But I DO think they're just meant to represent regular kids in general, regardless of the implications their existence there has. Which leads us back to the human testing facility

Even in version 0.09 I've always seen the place as somewhere with little respect for human life, masquerading as a hospital/medical facility of some sort. A nice lobby complete with a little window to accept patients, a doctor's office with a nonchalant doctor inside (which, like Masada, exhibits a much more life-like reaction to the effect that causes death, suggesting she actually witnessed such a reaction from him), and, behind all that, a dark, filthy place filled with body-bags and meat-hooks. At the time I still had a few doubts, thinking it might have been an overly pessimistic view of an hospital's morgue, but those doubts all but disappeared with this new version. Sabitsuki clearly thinks of this place as having a very negative connotation, and rightfully so according to the way I've been thinking about .flow's events and story. All this to say I believe these regular kids are represent everyday kids, who checked in like anyone does in a medical facility, and are there to receive whichever kind of special treatment that place offers, as opposed to the kid Kaibutsus

And I'm sorry for still not having posted the theory even after this much time has passed since you asked for it Canta. But between some missing links and currently the exam season I just haven't found the time or mustered the wits to do it yet

Last edited 11/06/14(Tue)15:19.

Even Shidezu is all planty...

>>2953

Oh, it's just fine! Exams are murder, man. Best of luck to ya!

Hmm, the doctor... I never actually saw him as a doctor, to be honest. I thought he was just a nutsack patient strapped to that chair with his head lolling about because he didn't have any muscular control over it otherwise, but then again that doesn't make much sense, does it? Especially with .1's addition of the assistant and the various shelves and a desk and that. So, I think you're right about him being a doctor. But then, what would the little hoodie effect kid be doing in the room directly beside the main office? He sure doesn't look too alive, and the tables in that room don't exactly give the impression of a cushy hospital room. Considering the meathook area could definitely be considered the morgue of the hospital...
Unless the entire thing up to the just-before-Parade hallway is a morgue, but that's kind of thrown off by the clean little lobby area.

I'm sorry, I really don't have many thoughts about anything presently. I just felt like replying~

>>2954

Is that what we're calling him now? Phoo.

>>2955

Thank you, I'll see if I can post it after I'm through with them

That anon came up with the name Shidezu in >>2895. It's as good a name as any, but I think I'll just call him/her Gardener, that's what the straw hat always reminded me of

Sorry about the morgue bit of my post, I wrote it in a really confusing way. What I meant to say was I was mostly convinced that facility was an evil place after seeing 0.9's meat-hook section. However, I had a few doubts, thinking that it could also have been a regular hospital, and the meat-hook section just a regular morgue, only seen in a much more horrid light by our disturbed Sabitsuki. However, with the coming of v0.10, the possibility of that place being a morgue vanished from my mind

In fact, after seeing the whole thing, Sabitsuki's dream-replica of that place no longer felt like it was unrealistically horrible and overloaded with negative imagery, but rather a quite accurate depiction of what was going on behind that facility, which fronted as a clean hospital/medical institution

No, Shidezu is the ECG. 心電図 without the んs.

Last edited 11/06/15(Wed)20:18.

I'm quite intrigued by this Smile NPC... I can't exactly explain why but I got the feeling he might be the reason behind the Kaibutsu disease (but didn't get phisically affected by it for some reason).
On the normal version of the school for example, he's seen surrounded by students, like he's telling them about something "interesting" or they just liked to be around him because he seemed cool and different. Whatever it was, something went wrong (or maybe it was his plan all along?) based on what we can see on the corrupted school (there are no students left... and Smile has gone kind of crazy).

Also, you get the tattoo effect from a tattooed-kaibutsu version of Sabitsuki and well... aside from uniforms, white hair and blood, kaibutsus are easily recognized by their creepy smile! (and that was enough reason for me to connect them, haha)

Sabitsuki is the only one that knows the truth and is trying to stop the Kaibutsu disease on herself.
BUT YEAH, maybe I'm just thinking too much. I just wish lol could give us some answers...

I actually took the small child in the bed to be a younger Sabitsuki. I mean, look at the hair. They're strikingly similar, right? Perhaps Sabitsuki had stayed at this hospital to treat whatever disease she had, and still has. And then she was released. Perhaps she had a private room funded by her parents or something.

Also, judging by this screencap right here, I think that Sabitsuki and Smile used to be friends or playmates in the past. My theory is that they grew up in the Slums together, and they were pretty close (except for the shy Sister). When they got into high school, however, things changed. Because Smile was so different (with his tattoos), kids flocked to him, and it made him popular. Thus, Sabitsuki was shunned, left alone outside the social circle (desk circle).

like typhoid mary

I have an irl theory somewhat related to the game.

lol is left-handed.

I theorize this because .flow is packed with lefties. We all know Sabitsuki is left-handed, but on top of that, Smile holds and swings his claw hammer with his left hand, the rogue kaibutsu in the bar bashes Sabitsuki with a steel pipe in his left-hand, and in the official artwork, take a guess at which hand Sister is holding the knife in. Just about every single character that ever appears in .flow is left-handed.

>>2957

I just went with what >>2895 said. Didn't know he "made up" the name by reading it

>>2960

She is Sabitsuki as a child for sure and it's been said at least once in this thread. You might want to return there during the Rust dream world if you haven't already

Yeah, I was trying to think up a name for the ECG, and I decided to take the "n"s out of "shindenzu", and tada, I thought up a name. Because it seems to me like a person and not a thing.

On second thought, that rather fat man left of Shidezu on that sprite sheet looks like a woman rather than a man.

Anyone else notice the blood on Smile's hammer?

Yeah, we did, but is it blood? Or is it RUST?

OR IS IT THE BLOOD OF RUST MWUHAHAHA LIGHTNING STRIKES

Exam season is finally over and it's time to bump this thread. Even though it isn't in /t/ anymore there's just too much discussion here for it to go to waste

People of /flow/, unite and post your goddamned theories. Theories about everything, or about a particular character/place, it doesn't really matter. Don't forget to carefully support your theories with events/places so we can get a good discussion going

I'll be posting a long-overdue one soon after I work out a few holes that were plaguing it, and am very much open to enlightenment if any of you have a good theory

Pic clearly related

Last edited 11/07/10(Sun)12:36.

I believe 'Rust' is a disease. There are several areas in the game that have things to do with hospitals and even in one room, you can find what looks like Sabitsuki lying in a hospital bed. (SPOILER) Also, when looking for the .GET boxes, also known as Empty Boxes, you find a large Sabitsuki in a tank, like the kind you see in science fiction used for medical procedures. (/END SPOILER).

A couple other things that lead me to believe Rust is a disease is the gas mask effect and also the maids who wear gas masks (most people say they're machines/robots, but they look just like Sabitsuki when wearing the gas mask). We all know gas masks are worn to ward off anything harmful that could be breathed in.

I'm guessing, now, that Sabtisuki either opted out of having the surgery needed to prevent catching 'Rust', or that she already had the disease and it was too late to save her, therefore she locked herself in isolation.

(SPOILERS AGAIN) This leads me to believe that, throughout the game, she is being more and more corrupted by her disease, getting sicker and sicker. Possibly, it starts to effect her brain, or she starts losing her mind due to the isolation and depression of knowing that she is going to die from this disease, which might be why we see her, at the true ending of the game, get that creepy, insane smile on her face before she steps up to the maid with the chainsaw. The maid, who might just be a doctor/nurse in a different outfit than we're used to, a member of the government, or her own mother (there are countless options), knows that she must end Sabitsuki's life in order to stop 'Rust' from hurting any more people. (END SPOILER)

I have tons more theories, but I will save those for later. :)

>>1434

Firstly, about the Robomaid, you can rest assured she's a human being. There's been some talk about it and PSI even posted definitive proof, a link to a Robomaid drawing by lol. You can see it in this post >>1166

Now, on to your theory. Making an assumption Rust is a progressing condition is very logical, and I'm guessing more than just a few of us thought of this as well. But from what I understood (and correct me if I'm wrong), you seem to believe her disease is only physical in nature, and that her deteriorating mental condition is nothing but an indirect consequence of this illness rather than a symptom itself. This is where I'll have to disagree with you

Personally, I always looked at Rust as being more of a psychological condition, one that eventually led to Sabitsuki's Kaibutsu transformation/degeneration, which we witness during the True Ending

I'll have to admit, the thought to group up the physical issues she had with the broader Rust theme never really crossed my mind. When I thought about Rust, I thought only of the psychological alterations she was experiencing. Reading what you said, though, made it pretty clear that the physical symptoms should be considered just as much a part of Rust as the psychological ones. After all, a Kaibutsu is recognized both by his crazy behaviour and his grievous wounds

But back to your theory. The main reason I believe Rust has an undeniable psychological component is because Sabitsuki actually becomes Rust after you decide to give up on your effects, as noted by her name change. What I wanted to ask you was, do you believe this holds no particular significance besides the deterioration of her physical condition?

Hm. I never thought too hard that Rust could effect her psychologically, though it's entirely possible. My thought was just that being locked in isolation, having a disfiguring disease, would bring up a lot of self hate and other such things that could easily drive someone over the edge, into insanity. It could very well be a combination of both Rust and her own choices corrupting her mind.

My theory is still flawed and I still have to put more thought to it, so thank you so much for sharing your own opinion! It puts mine in a different prospective and I'll definitely think over it.

>>1438

No, thank you for posting the theory. Flawed or not, it certainly opened my eyes to something so important and which I would have certainly overlooked

Be sure to post whenever you have a theory, people are always looking for more ideas. I usually have an eye on this thread and am sure to be open for discussion if you're looking to perfect a theory

>>1435
Really? I thought the rust thing was kind of obvious. When I became aware of the rust theme my initial reaction was that it had to do with the blood thing. Rust can mean so many things under this symbolism--the diseased body is rusting, but also the fact that blood looks like rust in the game, particularly on the parade elevator door. When I first saw it I thought it was rusted shut, only to realize it was blood as it opened.

I also think "bad blood" can be analogous to rust of the human body. I am not sure what I think of Sabi's disease yet, but I think it does at least have something to do with her blood (but maybe not only her blood).

I also think that rust and blood is correlated simply because blood tastes coppery. My parents used to do a lot of butchering and I remember that when the blood was fresh it also had a metallic kind of smell. I realize that rust is associated with iron, but I think iron is also an important part of the blood's composition.

On a different note, how many of you all think that the disease has a linear path? I think that most of the children from the testing facility in the past died from it, but a few would eventually become kaibutsu instead, but would still exibit the strange bleeding symptom. I guess what I'm also asking is how many of you think the kaibutsu was the final stage for some of them, or merely the final symptom of the disease itself before the kaibutsu dies from bleeding?

I'm trying to correlate all the apparently diseased characters who died with the kaibutsu being alive, Sabi's similarities with them as well as her having a kaibutsu version of herself that appears, and then finally that white room where she bleeds to death.

I like to think that you could either bleed to death or turn into a kaibutsu, and Sabitsuki was never sure which was going to happen to her.

Lastly, I am wondering what people's ideas with Oreko currently are. I haven't seen a lot about her since .09. She's got this alien technology, and as brought up by >>1206 The testing facility connects with the plant area (some of you mentioned other areas of the testing facility I have no idea how to reach so I can't comment on them).

The alien technology merging with the plants and the children... It makes me wonder if Sabi got a sort of sci-fi idea in her mind at some point for a cure for the disease, or some sort of treatment, or even a cause for the disease. This is just an example that I'd love if people built upon since I'm sort of just hypothesising here--What if Sabi heard something from one of the other patients that they were going to be moved to a facility under the ocean where they'd be cured. So then she starts daydreaming about it and invents Oreko.

I guess that is also kind of a long shot given that most of our new talk material is from .09 onwards and Oreko has been around for awhile.

One last thing I'd like to mention is that I think whatever events inspire the school and Smile take place prior to Sabi's hospitalization. I think hte little girl behind Smile might be Sabi herself, given the family theme with their names.

>>1441

Yes, it IS very, very obvious, which is why I felt so dumb when I realized the idea to group the symptoms together had never even crossed my mind. It was mostly because, as you can see in some earlier posts, we had started discussing Rust as a mechanism of psychological erosion, be it into a separate, more dangerous personality, or simply the deterioration of Sabitsuki's personality into a more primal and insane state of mind. Guess I got so caught up in trying to determine how Rust was most likely to affect Sabitsuki's mind that I completely forgot to include the remaining (and certainly not less important), physical symptoms

Now for your theories. As far as Rust being an analogy for blood, I'm thinking it's pretty safe to assume most, if not all, would agree with that, as it's a very down-to-earth connection to make. My personal opinion is that, more than just the physical aspect of Sabitsuki's disease, the term Rust also conveys the mental erosion she's experiencing. Of course, this is one of those topics which is completely open to speculation, due to a distinctive lack of any hard evidence. What lol meant when he renamed Sabitsuki to Rust, only he knows for sure

I've put quite a bit of thought into the Kaibutsu transformation/degeneration process, since, thanks to the True Ending, it is one of this game's focal points. Due to the new child testing facility, we can see Sabitsuki, as a child, had close contact with the Kaibutsus who we now see roaming around her dream world and generally making our exploration harder. Since she has memories of both their early years and their adolescent/adult forms, I think we can agree that Sabitsuki knows what happens when someone undergoes this process. This is why I believe the Kaibutsu as we know it is the final, and rather short-lived, stage of this affliction.

Having said that, exactly how short-lived I cannot say. Judging by the size of their wounds, together with their "berserk" state of mind which may or may not cause them to forfeit sustenance and sleep in favor of violence, it's possible to estimate they would remain alive for a period of time that can be anything between a few hours and a few days. Also, still regarding what we think is a Kaibutsu's final destiny, you mentioned the bleeding-out event. In the image I posted,if you look at the bits with grey background, you'll see a Kaibutsu smile on Sabitsuki as she dies. This,together with what I said above about Sabitsuki's knowledge of the degenerative process, is what makes me believe the Kaibutsus we know are incapable of surviving for long. Anyway, I hope this is the kind of opinion you were looking to collect

As far as Oreko and Smile's little sister go, I'll get back to you on that when I finish up my theory. I have a mostly formed opinion on them but, seeing as it's not set in stone yet, I'd rather give a more elaborate answer in the near-future than a weakly-supported one right now. What I can say is, I think they're both connected very deeply with the main plot, even if in wildly different ways

>>1442
oh wow that's amazing :D. I think the rust theme does go with blood and the mental state, since her dream world itself seems to be in a state of decay. Only the events we associate with the "past" are coherent, but only dissociative worlds (if you will) connect to the nexus.

But I love your idea that both fates are part of the process--kaibutsu then death, the mind rusts over before the body finishes rusting over. I like that idea a lot.

As for Smile and the little girl I must retract my hypothesis that she is Sabi before hair color change. I just recently learned there is artwork of the little girl by lol, and she looks noooothing like Sabi.

Since we brought up Smile, I would like to say what little I've thought about him (not that I don't like him, but I've been thinking more about other aspects of the game). In the Cyberbully event, if you can get to the end, you are chased by Kaibutsu (that disturbingly look a lot like half-rusted Sabistuki and even have the steel pipe) that has Smile in it, holding a hammer. If you approach him, he kills you and you are forced 'awake' or out of the flow mindset. This leads me to believe that they never were friends, or if they had been, he was only her friend in order to gain something or find her weakness.

Not to say that I don't think Sabitsuki idolized him. In fact, other than in the Cyberbully event and when you go to Smile's house, he is utterly unreachable within the school; there are always desks in the way. This could mean that she finds him out of reach; that she idolizes (or loves) him from afar, but for some reason, does not think that she's good enough for him.

As for the little girl who stands behind Smile, I haven't a clue of who she could be. lol titled the picture of her as 'sister', so either it's safe to say that Sister is Smile's sister, or she may be Sabitsuki's because she's always hiding from Sabitsuki, especially when you take out the handgun (and fire it) or the steel pipe.

Now, to explain why I think she might be Sabitsuki's sister is mainly because that she is called Sister in the picture lol drew, but also could be tied in as to why Smile kills you and is unreachable. Sabitsuki's sister (if Sister truly is related to Sabi) could have stolen Smile away from Sabi. Either deliberately or it happened on its own, I can't say, but it would explain why Smile is unreachable and why in the Cyberbully event, he kills her (it could be symbolism that he 'killed' her, broke her heart, by choosing to be with Sabi's sister). It would also explain why Sister constantly hides from Sabitsuki, especially with the violent effects, because obviously, Sabi wouldn't be to happy with someone who stole her love. Well, I shouldn't say obviously because this is all speculation, but I know I would be rather mad about someone stealing the person I loved. Also, it would go in line with Sabi becoming more and more violent because of the 'Rust' disease as she slowly turns into a Kaibutsu.

If that is correct, then in my earlier post (where I stated I thought Rust was a disease, which I still do), I would change how I made it sound that Sabitsuki has isolated herself for her own sake. If she is getting violent with the people she loves, then she very well could have isolated herself to protect them, rather than to protect herself.

Anyways, all of this is pure speculation and just a theory of mine. :)

>>1445
I don't get the impression he use her for anything, but I do think they had a falling out. The chase sequence reminds me more of a kind of nightmare, representing one of the very worst things Sabi can think of.

I think its more of a "you are your own worst enemy" thing. There's no doubt Sabi is terrified of him, but the chase sequence makes me think that at some point Sabi scared Smile.

But I'm still not sure. The picture lol drew of Sister is really confusing cuz it makes her look kind of badass but in the game she's definitely someone who can't protect herself and needs smile to hide behind!

Fucking damn I love Smile :D only Oreko is more ambiguous and yet like 3 whole fucking areas hinge completely around that dude! His smile is even an empty get and appears in the body areas.

I just noticed something very subtle that was definitely intentional as it happens from all angles. When you equip the tattoo effect, Sabitsuki's left shoulder is wounded. Got any theories on that?

I also noticed that Smile actually appears THREE times in the regular school, not two as I originally thought. First he appears in the classroom with the kids where he smiles and takes the bloodstained clawhammer out when you pull out the pipe. After that, he appears in a classroom without the kids holding the hammer with a depressed look on his face, and he doesn't react to Sabitsuki. Lastly, the roof with the tattoo effect.

Last edited 11/07/13(Wed)00:05.

I just thought of something, looking at the decaying art gallery we find five creepy drawings, two of which have manifested (the eye and mouth screens).
The one in the picture makes me think of paranoia, fear of technology, and being watched. This can be backed up some by the fact that technology is not only seen in a hellish light, but also associated with hospitals, death, and that eerie plant area with all the bloody kids.
The fact that the drawings feature either screens or eyes makes me think that maybe Sabi was kept under tight watch for whatever reason (maybe at the hospital) and could never get away from those monitors and prying eyes.
Then there's the one made mostly of bony hands, perhaps she hated people that touched her. Maybe that's why when you touch the insane Kaibutsu you get warped to some locked in area.

The whole eye and grinning mouth motif make me think a lot of trust issues. Everything has a nasty smile, out to get you or make fun of you. Eyes that never blink, just watching forever until they get torn out or never saw to begin with.

In one way you could see the corrupted school and the Cyberbully event as an extension of the trust issue. Sabitsuki has to run, defenseless, though a school through of hostile people, all smiling, giggling and some even wielding weapons as they chase her. Reaching the end after that little nightmare she finds Smile, he himself wielding a steel pipe that he promptly cracks you over the head with so hard she wakes up.
She could have trusted Smile and went through a lot of pain to get to him, only to be quickly and badly hurt. And when she tries to hurt him back or retaliate (hitting him with the pipe) all he does is laugh and smile and tell her something and then go back to being impossible to reach.

Seeing him on the rooftop, twice Sabi's height and faceless may show how Sabi can no longer find the person she trusted and can't even get his attention.

And >>1453 maybe it could be some pain associated with Smile manifested or...it always kinda looked to me like her eye was bleeding onto her sleeve.
So, uh, there you go.

Last edited 11/07/13(Wed)18:58.

First off, why is everyone calling the corrupted school event Cyberbully? Did I miss anything?

>>1444

Why thank you, never thought I'd get such a positive response right off the bat. And about the connection between Smile's sister and Sabitsuki, you're not as far from the truth as you may think (according to the theories I've been thinking of, at any rate). Either way, looking at their hairstyles we can see Sabitsuki and Smile are closely related, in one way or another

And you are very right. The most coherent areas (and thus the ones representing real-world memories) are always hidden deeper inside her mind, or in hard to get places. The four entrance worlds are very simple and abstract in nature

>>1445

To be completely honest, I do not believe Smile was Sabitsuki's love interest. Even if their matching hairstyles are a coincidence, or otherwise not intended to show a family resemblance between one another (which I doubt), Smile simply isn't shown in any romantic setting; even the relatively calm school rooftop has that disturbing sky which just screams "Despair". Of course, although I'm saying this, I might be forgetting something, so be sure to correct me if you think there is a scene that portrays Smile in a more romantic light

We can indeed see Smile in several areas of the school, and 2 out of 3 times he is in an unreachable position. However, I don't think this is meant to show he was unreachable, as there is also a room where a passive Kaibutsu girl is in a closed-off section, and that would imply the same thing was true about her

As far as the rooftop goes, I arrived at a conclusion I believe explains it quite neatly (see >>1153), but more importantly, we have 2 places inside the school where we can see Smile. In the first he is surrounded by students, just like a proper popular guy would (which leaves little to speculation). In the second, we see him hammer in hand, looking rather downtrodden. To me, these two places are meant to show us both of Smile's sides; he was a well-liked popularity figure in that school, and yet, behind the scenes, he felt rather depressed (which, as you probably know already, is something quite common during adolescence)

About the Corrupted School event, the basement bit isn't as simple as that. Of course, Smile deals the killing blow, but Sabitsuki is holding her signature steel pipe, as well. I'll get to that later, as others have mentioned this event too

Finally, about Sabitsuki having shut herself in because she feared for the safety of her loved ones. I wouldn't have anything against that theory if it wasn't for the endings. She chooses to go all the way back to the school rooftop to spend her final moments and, because she exited her room/apartment, I don't believe she locked herself up for the reason you mentioned. My theory is she did that in order to organize her thoughts, which I can only imagine are a bloody mess, between Rust's mental erosion and the whirlwind of events that unfolded around her. My guess is as good as anyone's, though

>>1446

I completely agree with your take on the Corrupted School chase, the "You are your worst enemy" theme is exactly the kind of vibe I got from there. More on that a bit later

Also on Smile being scared, I'll have to say I never saw even the slightest bit of fear in any of his appearances. Depression, yes, but not fear. In fact, in my eyes he always appeared to be someone who was incredibly decisive in his actions. As soon as Sabitsuki's pipe comes out, his hammer does too, with a disturbing smile to boot. And he strikes Sabitsuki down without a second thought in the Corrupted School event. So overall, I don't think any event portrays him as being scared of anything, unless I'm forgetting something

The way lol drew the little sister is "different" from the image we all have of her, to say the least. But I'd sooner call it artistic freedom than anything else. Or maybe, just maybe, something to look forward to in version 0.11

That sure as hell is one thing we can all agree on. Talking about this guy is refreshing. He's interesting, a real breath of fresh air, and added a new level of depth to .flow's background story

>>1453

I'm not sure her shoulder is wounded at all. You see, the colour of that pixel in her shoulder matches the colour of the + tattoo on her eyes. And, according to lol's drawing of Smile (see >>919), he's wearing a regular shirt, while Sabitsuki's looks like a sleeveless model. It may just be that Smile has another tattoo on his arm's uppermost part, and the Tattoo effect reflects that

>>1458

I very much agree with you on that first bit. That area, along with the hell-tech areas, have a very present watching-eye theme. And it's probably no coincidence that the gallery leads to the underwater area, where Oreko can be found building her very own hell-tech machine...

As far as the rest goes, though, I don't think that's the case. This game, unlike Yume Nikki, limited the "you're being watched" theme to particular areas. Nowhere else do we see eyes that can be described as "Big Brother"-types, as the body area's eyes are mostly the bloody type to go with the disease, and the school area's eyes are Smile's (I don't think I'm missing any, but be sure to correct me if I am)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for the Corrupted School event. I've given this quite a bit of thought since I first saw it, and this is how I see what happened there. We have the chase scene, where several Kaibutsu Sabitsukis run after you throughout the school, steel pipe in hand, and the basement, where Smile kills you

Now, I believe the chase isn't something that happened the way she remembers it. During this scene, she's literally running from herself. Or better, several pipe wielding, Kaibutsu versions of herself. My best take on what this scene represents is a partial Rust takeover, at some point in time; a fuzzy event that's a reconstitution of how her scared, sane personality tried to break free from Rust's clutches. We can even experience her lack of control over the situation, as during this event, she can neither use any effects nor wake up at will. What may have happened during this time is not known, but, as expected of a regular Kaibutsu, it was most likely a violent rampage

Then, we have the basement and Smile. We can see she was holding the steel pipe all along as she regains her senses. In fact, I believe Smile is the very reason she snapped out of her berserk state at all; she saw someone she remembered as being very dear to her and that caused her to regain control. Regardless, Smile knows her for the monster she is, and does not hesitate to strike her down, even though Sabitsuki has no intention of harming anyone at this point

Also, note how, excluding the 3 Rust True Ending objects, this is the most heavily protected event of her dream world. The entrance appears randomly, after which you have to possess and use the Ghost effect to get through, and even then you'll be chased through 3 areas without being able to use any effects. All this so you can get to this part. Clearly significative of how much this memory affected Sabitsuki, most likely in a traumatising manner

And that's it for today. All that's left is to congratulate those who had the patience to read the whole fucking post. Damn, this thing is huge

>>1462

>First off, why is everyone calling the corrupted school event Cyberbully? Did I miss anything?

Oops, my bad.

>>1463

No, no. I was just wondering, not saying it's a bad name or anything

What led you to pick that name?

Probably this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY6A4_VHX5A

Hey didn't someone open up .flow at some point and look at the map and read what its title was? ((I almost think I did this at one point and forgot to bring it up with you guys but just in case I want to hand credit to an anonymous who may or may not be fictitious at this point!))

But I'm pretty certain this is true--the name of the chase event is something along the lines of "tag", or the japanese equivalent.

>>1477
The name just came to me when I played the game then I titled the video that

>>1483
>>1500

I see, I see. Well, it's as good a name as any, I guess

>>1484

You mean the map where Smile kills you? I don't remember anyone doing that, but of course we can't rule out that possibility

Running the Corrupted School basement map's name through Babelfish returned "School reverse side deep part", which is probably a pretty accurate translation. Guess it means something along the lines of "Dark Side School's basement". Whoever came up with Corrupted School came pretty close. The characters are here if anyone who actually knows Japanese wants them "学校裏深部"

The previous maps, the ones the chase scene takes place on, are called "おいかけっこ". Google translate returned "Chasing" on this, so I guess "Tag" would be a pretty close translation, as well

Finally, the entrance's name, when ran through Babelfish, returned "School reverse side entrance". Pretty much what one would expect

As a side-note, the map with the 3 regular Kaibutsus and the 4th super-speedy one, the one you have to go through to enter the Corrupted School, is called Smile. Not something that game-changing but it's worth noting nonetheless

>>1510
babelfish? I haven't even heard of that application. If I DID do it myself and forgot to report my findings, then I think I used denshi jisho, because that's the website my japanese professor tells me to use if I need a quick reference.

>>1545

Babelfish is Yahoo's translator. Like Google's but it usually says something slightly different, so if you use both you're almost guaranteed to get a close match (or at least one that is understandable) in English

Figure I'd post here asking for some theory content on the .flow wiki
because seriously we need some more content
http://dotflow.wikidot.com/

And to stay on topic: In the prison area you can find a darker sabi lookalike in there, and you can run into run Kaibutsu and end up in a cell. Given the flesh like appearance of the floor and walls and that it leads from the decaying art gallery it seems that sabi feels trapped in her own body. And perhaps she tries to transcend her body via flowing but fails every time, only falling further into herself throughout the game (the blood on the floor for one thing)

>>1556

I'll start doing stuff there as soon I finish up my theory, which I've been looking into quite a bit these past few days but can't seem to finish. Along with changing the "Mother" event page, since no one can seem to tell me a source for that name, so I can only assume it's a rather misleading fan-name

Yes, that's a very good conclusion to arrive at. Personally, I've always felt that was a representation of the darker part of her she was trying to contain. But your theory makes just as much sense, since, knowing she'll become a Kaibutsu, she's certainly feeling like there's no way to escape that fate. Only thing I'd point out is that according to map names, the place is called Water Prison, so the stuff on the ground is most likely murky water, instead of it being a flesh floor

>>1557
Sounds good Guy, just remember not to go crazy on the theory section, we want the numerous 'popular' ones instead of just one. :P

And I didn't come up with 'mother', if you want you can change the name and post of the suggestion forum to change the URL.

Out of curiosity, the apartments are one of my favorite spots in the game so far. what do you think of that place as far as theories go?
Oh, and the shadow man thing in the water prison.
I figure it could be either based off the myth or a person Sabi used to know.
(also how do you read the map names?)

Last edited 11/07/19(Tue)16:12.

>>1558

Of course not. I wouldn't delete theories, no matter how flawed they are. If anything I'd flag them for their frailty, if such a flag exists on the wiki, and explain why they are flawed in the comments section. Rest assured, I am working towards a "this is likely how it went" theory, but most important of all to me is that people think of a good theory by themselves

I wasn't blaming you for naming it Mother. It was just something that got under my skin, mainly because many people who are new to the game and read the event page will think "oh, so that was Sabitsuki's mother", and form their theories with that in mind

The apartments are loaded with significance, that is for sure. I mean, there's just so much stuff in there. The weird and rainy hospital, the entrance to the dying girls event, a gateway to the tech-plant world and even the only entrance to this game's FC world, all in one area. It's hard not to like it for one reason or another

I believe this is a place she has stumbled upon at a certain point, either when:

• She was escaping whichever nameless organization the Cleaner maid is a part of (that's what lol called the chainsaw-wielding maid in one of his drawings)

or

• After the temporary Rust takeover which I posted about a few days ago, since this area is closely connected to the school as well (through the elevator you have to crack open)

Whichever of these it was, I believe the way those seemingly unrelated locations (hospital, FC world, etc) are blended throughout the apartments is a reference to how jumbled her memories were at that point in time. Of course, there isn't really anything to back these words up. They're my take on it, and my guess is as good as anyone's

As far as the shadow man goes, I don't really know who it is you're referring to. Can you elaborate, or post a picture of him?

I'm getting these map names by opening the game in RPG maker, copying the original map name, which is in Japanese characters, and running it through Google translate and yahoo's Babelfish. Usually this is enough to get something intelligible, and occasionally one of them gives a clean translation. Is there a particular map name you'd like to know?

Last edited 11/07/19(Tue)17:18.

>>1559
If you find flaws with the feelings you should probably post them in the forums, you'll probably get more attention there.
And I was curious about the name for the plant place, both the part with the children, the white puddle place, and the place up and and including the area with the gas mask effect.
I have more requests that i'd like to ask you for the wiki but I suggest we take it to the wiki itself. Can you post in one of the threads I made? (I'm bluedragonfly)

Also this is the guy i'm talking about just peaking his head out, hard to catch

I posted this theory in a little less organized version on my Dream vs. Dream thread, but I'll bring it over here in a more organized form over here. This theory isn't about Sabitsuki herself, it deals more with what is going on throughout the game, something that I don't seem to see much on in the way of theories.

I believe that even before the Rust chapter, you're still Rust. Rust is a virus that has somehow infected Sabitsuki, and is now attempting to corrupt her. While Sabitsuki goes on the internet, her mind is distracted enough for Rust to travel around in Sabitsuki's mind and body without being caught by her defenses (the red demon creatures).

"But", you say, "how come it says Sabitsuki on the menu screen?" Easy. Rust has taken Sabitsuki's form and name while in her mind so that she can travel it without being attacked, without arousing suspicion from the denizens of Sabitsuki's mind. Why do the Kaibutsu attack Rust, even if Rust is technically what the Kaibutsu are? There are a variety of answers for this. You could say that Rust is disguised, and the Kaibutsu may not know better. Perhaps the Kaibutsu are simply from Sabitsuki's memory of them, and are aggressive to anything. The blood events are part of the corruption that Rust has brought about by simply existing in Sabitsuki. Rust is then seen dying in some of these events. However, I am guessing that since viruses replicate as much as they do, there are multiple Rusts. Sabitsuki gets blood on the floor due to internal damage done from the infection's progression. Seeing the locations of some of the blood splotches...I'm going to guess that she had some pretty awful fits.

Now, onto the next section. The effects represent parts of Sabitsuki's personality and memories (what they represent is up to you). When they are destroyed by Rust when they are placed in the box, Sabitsuki's body goes haywire from the combination of her deteriorating body and mind (Rust's mere presence and the effect's destruction) and her defense mechanisms are released, aka Red Demon creatures. At this point, Rust now is revealed as Rust because the disguise is no longer needed. Rust proceeds to destroy the final bits of Sabitsuki's memories (the boxes in Oreko's lab and in the school) and deals a crushing blow to her physical state (the viscera girl event box) while the Red Demons attempt to destroy the Rust virus in Sabitsuki. At this point, Sabitsuki's body is near collapse, and her mind, although still active in that the .flow world is still available, is on the verge of total destruction. During the final corridor, Rust makes one final run to the core of Sabitsuki and is attacked by the Red Demons as they try to protect her. Rust takes the damage but manages to claw his way to the center of Sabitsuki and brutally beats the crap out of her soul, the last thing separating Sabitsuki from Rust, the final thing keep her from being completely eliminated. After this, Rust is in full control. Rust!Sabitsuki walks outside, and admires the sky, only to be ambushed by a Cleaner. Rust!Sabitsuki attempts to attack the Cleaner, but she deftly lops its legs off with a chainsaw, rendering her useless.

So in a nutshell, you only play as Sabitsuki in the waking world. The rest is all you playing as Rust and spreading your terrible infection to Sabitsuki, slowly and systematically murdering her. Whatever happened to Sabitsuki that caused her to contract the Rust virus or what any of the symbolism in her subconscious means about her is completely up to you. Judging by some of the other theories here, this game becomes one big kick the dog moment for Sabitsuki.

>>1560

Sure, I'll register there as soon as I finish this post

Ah, that one. As far as that little guy is concerned, he looks just like the other prisoners, so my guess is he's just a fugitive that's peeking out of that corner and hides himself as soon as he sees someone approaching. Not terribly important from my point of view

>>1561

I can see you've put a good deal of thought into that, so I'll try to point out the flaws as neatly as possible. Also, these flaws, though they deliver quite a blow to your theory, are also understandable, since they are so obscure you couldn't possibly have picked up on them during that rather fast playthrough you did

But first the good things. I liked reading it, much more than the one in the other thread, as it was very well built. It took into account a great deal of details, which you carefully entwined around the core theory (effect destruction, for example)

Then we had the bit about the dream world Sabitsuki being Rust all along. It was a guess, in that there wasn't anything supporting it, but it was an educated one. It was credible and meshed well enough with the rest of your theory, seeing as Rust would only have to "hide" until he weakened her subconsciousness enough

Finally, you get major points for that funny mental image of a Kaibutsu relaxedly admiring the sky

Unfortunately, the whole deal isn't half as simple as you probably thought it was

Your theory was brought down by a single thing, upon which you understandably relied to explain things since the beginning: the red demons. I have to say, I was awed by how you didn't automatically assume they were evil. I sure did. It was a pretty biased opinion, but since they looked like the traditional Oni and were only found in the most "infected" places of the body world, that was enough for me to think they were evil when I first saw them

The thing is, they really are evil. They are, without a shadow of a doubt, the agents of Rust (I'm saying agents because I personally believe Rust to be a condition, rather than a virus). And the reason for this is that being corrupted by one is, by itself, a "blood event", as you've put it. Touching one increases the illness counter by a bit, and after it happens enough times it'll cause more blood splatters to appear. So when they're attacking the dream world Sabitsuki/Rust, they aren't defending Sabitsuki, they're literally corrupting her

Of course, the implications this has are enormous. They're certainly trying to defend the final room, seeing as they take us to the very limit of the corruption threshold. This, coupled with their evil nature, means that whatever they're trying to defend isn't the last shred of Sabitsuki's mind

Even though something as small as that ruined the whole theory don't think I don't share your pain; I've done my bit of mental raging at all these twists. But from these controversial events I've built a theory which is now part of the major one I've been working on. This bit has been completed for some time so I'll post it. On a separate post, though, since this post is getting way too big

Last edited 11/07/19(Tue)20:43.

Hey guys, which do you think is the more complex game for theories? Yume Nikki or .flow?

Maybe its because .flow is still an active project and first really hit the board about 2 years ago or so, and I wasn't around when yume nikki boom first really manifested, but it seems to me that .flow really gets a lot of debate.

In my opinion yume nikki was rife with a lot more symbolism and subtlety, really hiding whatever complexity was deep in there, plus it was a bigger game. But on the other hand .flow seems to give you a lot of meat and potatoes, but not enough to ever get you full, leaving you craving that one last bite you need to really put things together.

Both are so wonderful, but what do you guys think?

Your theory implies Rust is making his way through Sabitsuki's subconscious in order to ultimately destroy her, while she was unknowingly surfing the internet. My theory approaches the events in this game from a different angle. Leaving apart the events that happened before the game, and focusing on what Sabitsuki was trying to accomplish, this is the gist of it

Sabitsuki knew all along about her unavoidable Kaibutsu degeneration. This, because, seeing as she has memories of other Kaibutsus in her mind that means she got to see their ultimate fate and as such would know what awaited her as well

She decided to do something about it. However, her mind was heavily fragmented. Memories blended and twisted, and she needed to make sense of them before she could access the furthest reaches of her subconsciousness. To do this, she uses her computer as a means to access her subconscious world (possibly through binaural beats, since I've never seen the computer monitor showing anything)

As she travels through her own mind, witnessing things anew, she collected her broken memories which, very much like what you concluded, were represented by the effects. All the while, her physical and mental conditions are deteriorating rapidly

After piecing together her memories, she can access previously hidden corners of her subconsciousness. Of course, so can Rust. It spreads through these newly found means, and the consequences of this are swift and merciless

Her name changes, as Rust is the one who's in control of her mind now. Sabitsuki is still herself in the dream world, but her sprite gains an adequately sick look, as she feels her grip on her own brain growing ever weaker. Worst of all, her conscious self, now no longer in control, is being actively attacked by Rust in the subconscious world, as it tries to destroy what's left of her

Finally, she succeeds in finding and witnessing, once more, the memories she locked away as deep as she could. And with that, the way to Rust opened

The scenery grows more and more corrupted as Sabitsuki approaches Rust. Demons lash at her, and there's nothing she can do but endure wave after wave until she reaches her breaking point

Finally, Sabitsuki manages to reach her final destination. And she strikes Rust as hard as possible. But the corruption is too much for her too handle. She never gets to destroy Rust, as her consciousness fades for good

Rust wakes up. Goes to the school rooftop. The rest you already know. Minus the sky-admiring bit, of course

The End. Not a happy ending, that's for sure, but I'm quite happy with this bit of my theory. Be sure to point out if you find anything wrong with it, though, as I'm always looking to improve my theories

EDIT:

>>1569

I find .flow to be a superior game for a variety of reasons, chief among them that YN is more than just subtle, it's downright vague. This makes it too open to interpretation, to a point that it is impossible to ever actually KNOW what happened at any point

.flow doesn't do that. It gives us real information without flat out revealing anything, and was able to strike the perfect balance between these two elements

Of course, YN may (or may not) be the only reason .flow exists. And even if it isn't, a bit of respect is in order. It's not a bad game no matter how you look at it. It just doesn't allow for people to make solid theories about it, so I'd say, theory-wise, YN is inferior to .flow

Last edited 11/07/25(Mon)06:29.

>>1568

Ah... I completely forgot that being killed by one counted as a blood event. ...Is it actually called an "illness counter" in the RPG Maker files, like Oreko's friendship counter? If so, the entire theory is done for...possibly. If not, then I could easily add that the Rust virus is bonded with a part of Sabitsuki, and damage to it certainly destroys that Rust virus specimen, but also destroys the part of her that Rust infected.

About the demons; it's fairly simple in my eyes. If they act towards opposing goals like that, then I can only conclude that they are mindless. And in a way, it makes sense. Take a look at the Rust scenario. I believe in my run through of that, I spotted only a single Kaibutsu. And in all the places where there were once Kaibutsu, there are now demons. Plus, in 0.15's chase event, we see the Kaibutsu turning into demons right before our eyes. From this, I can deduce that the demons are an advanced form of Kaibutsu. Now the Kaibutsu, as we know, have two modes. A normal personable mode where they will even do things like have a drink and offer to change our menu scheme, and a batshit insane mode. In batshit insane mode, they become more grotesque and violent. It only makes sense that if they became even more consumed by Rust that they'd become more grotesque and more violent. And they are. Even their pattern of attack is more aggressive (sudden rushing tackle) than the Kaibutsu. They lose all their human qualities and become mindless animals. And in that final endgame corridor, they might just happen to be there rather than defend anything.

>>1570

Magnificent! I like it. The only fault I found was the part about Sabitsuki failing to kill Rust in the end. I believe Rust disappears, and then you "wake up". I'll look up a video later on to see if I'm right, but I'm pretty sure that Rust dies. Which makes the next part a real mindfuck, if I'm right.

>>1569

Definitely YN. Don't get me wrong, .flow is one of my favorite games of all time now, but it almost spells out what happens with some fairly obvious clues. Yume Nikki throws in a lot of vague symbolism, but it's not impossible to figure out completely.

...And then there's 2kki. I bet you could go absolutely mad trying to find a good solution to that game. Perhaps when I'm a wise old man, I finally figure out WTF it's about.

Last edited 11/07/19(Tue)22:15.

>>1571

The demons being advanced Kaibutsus seems really unlikely, though. Besides being much less disruptive and increasing the counter by less when they touch us, we can see during the Rust Corrupted School event that the change from Kaibutsu to Demon is accompanied some red flashes and a cry. Seeing as it's the only thing in the entire game that manages to bring a cry out of a Kaibutsu I can only see this as a very painful possession by said demons (they really are called demons/ogres by the way). Other than that, we can see demons peacefully coexisting with Kaibutsus inside the body area, after we strike the passive Kaibutsu in the white area

Even so, advanced form or possession, they're definitively agents of Rust. So all the other parts of what you said ring true to me, except for the bit of them being in the last corridor for no real reason

Of course, I won't say Rust mustered up his defenses when he saw Sabitsuki, but we can see their number increases as the area becomes more and more corrupted. So in the end, their number is directly related to how corrupted an area is, regardless of whether they were there to intentionally defend Rust or not

Damn Yama, you really were unlucky. I was thinking you had found a way to validate that theory, since illness counter was just a name I came up with. But after translating the variable's name both google translate and babelfish returned something even worse - "Degree of erosion/Penetration". I'm actually very disappointed this was the translation, was starting to think I'd have a whole new viewpoint to examine the game from

>>1572

Whoa whoa whoa. Touching a Kaibutsu increases the counter?! That's...unexpected. I assumed that they just teleported you somewhere. But about the pained cry; the Kaibutsu retain some human traits, as I observed. A final transformation to demon form while they were in normal mode might be very painful, enough to get a cry out of the usually tough Kaibutsu. This makes more sense than possession if a demon and a Kaibutsu were seen together somewhere in the game. It's simply one that hasn't "evolved" yet amongst ones that have.

And I see what you mean about Rust summoning them to the final corridor to protect himself. I get it now, like a hivemind sort of deal. So mindless yes, but easily influenced by Rust.

"Degree of erosion/penetration"? Hahahahaha!! Great! No, my theory's fate isn't sealed with this, it's saved! Erosion and penetration do not necessarily equate to "disease/illness"! Allow me to put it this way. They aren't infecting Rust as it travels throughout Sabitsuki, they're eroding it! Erosion and penetration describe the manner with which they disinfect the virus! Oh man, what a turnaround.

Watch, someone fluent in Japanese will go re-translate it, it'll be something that completely that completely fucks me over, and I'm gonna look like a bloody fool.

>>1573

That would work if only Rust was affected, but the erosion they're talking about is physical. She pukes blood all over the room, so this erosion isn't on a mental level, or at least not solely on a mental level

And yes, the Kaibutsus do retain their human traits, but that's at an earlier stage of their degeneration. After all, Sabitsuki is also completely normal-looking, until the end scene where she charges at the maid. After they degenerate into a real Kaibutsu, the change is permanent. We never see an aggressive Kaibutsu going back. Or rather, they stay aggressive until you wake up, which is pretty much like a dream world reset seeing as the people you killed also reappear

Finally, there are a LOT more demons than Kaibutsus. This is probably the reason that makes me object the most, because, if the demons come from Kaibutsus, then where did so many demons come from?

I didn't mean it that way, or rather, I was actually thinking about it the other way around. Even though Rust may have no direct control over the demons, you'll always notice them in areas where the corruption is stronger. So, even if he can't control them, they're bound to appear near him, since he's the source of the corruption

Last edited 11/07/19(Tue)23:39.

>>1574

As I have mentioned, Rust (being a virus as I stated) could be capable of infecting some part of Sabitsuki, and when it gets disinfected by a demon, could also be damaging that part of Sabitsuki, thus causing the physical reaction. I've been taking the .flow world as analogous for Sabitsuki's mind and body the whole time.

"Dream world reset" isn't QUITE right. You do keep your effects, and you cannot go and retrieve effects that you have from a different .flow session. Same goes for empty boxes. If these things change, what's keeping the Kaibutsu from calming down or the people killed from coming back to life? Also, the mouth background world. In this place, after you go in a certain gate, a red static begins to spin around, an extra gate to a strange three headed tree monster thing is added, and the number of demons nearly doubles. This stays the same even if you wake up and go back; you can't see the normal version anymore.

On the more demons than Kaibutsu thing, you've got me. I could come up with a reason like, "they can multiply once they are demons", but it just isn't a satisfying answer. But in that case...if they do possess Kaibutsu as you said...then why the hell are demons and Kaibutsu seen together, but the demons don't even touch the Kaibutsu? What a nightmare.

>>1575

I guess that could work, but do you really think they're referring to that when they mention erosion? Not that it wouldn't be possible, but I can't help but think it is pretty unlikely. And damn, it'd be a shitty defense system indeed if that were the case

Yes, I know it isn't a complete reset. There are some people who die permanently and there are some permanent flags and whatnot. But there's a good amount of people who remain dead until you re-enter, and the same happens for Kaibutsus' aggressive behaviour. You can switch areas all you want, but they won't calm down unless you wake up or get caught (which would force you to wake up either way if not for the Arm effect)

I mean, Kaibutsus get some pretty grievous wounds when they reach this phase, those things wouldn't just heal up in the real world. Plus, when reaching this stage, they go mad, just like Sabitsuki does when she turns into a Kaibutsu during the True Ending. Now, if that madness could just be reversed simply by calming down, then the main dramatic point about Sabitsuki's fear of turning into a Kaibutsu wouldn't be so dramatic in the end, would it? Not to mention, her violent reaction would be easily solved with a tranquilizer shot instead of a chainsaw

Are you talking about the body world? If so, the gate to the three-headed monster is always there, and so is the bloody fullscreen effect. The only areas that change are the white areas, and only after you hit the passive Kaibutsu in one of them

About the whole Rust Corrupted School event possessions, you might want to look at the end of this post >>1462. I was actually pretty happy about how well it fit with the 0.15 version, especially because I posted it one or two days before it was released

My take on that is Rust forced Sabitsuki to re-run this event, only this time with an even unhappier ending for her. And I say forced for a very particular reason; the demons do absolutely nothing to you in this event

I believe this was intentional, and meant to show how Rust was trying to scare her into running away, but not actually force her out of the event. It may even be for that reason that these Kaibutsus in particular are possessed, seeing that they could successfully cause the event to end if they struck Sabitsuki

Of course, this might be proved false in the future, but it still won't make a major dent in the theory, since it's still a win-win situation: if the demons catch her, she'll be weakened, but if she sees the event through to the end, then she'll be weakened even further by experiencing a very traumatic occurence first-hand

I'm sure you can somehow make this fit into your theory as well, but I guess if the demons were leading Rust so he could kill Smile, he'd have to be a bad guy as well, and the whole event would serve as a sort of morale boost for Sabitsuki?

>>1576

Hahahaha! Oh wow. I can't believe what I had just implied there regarding the calming down all that. Damn.

From what I see, it looks like my theory still needs a lot of revising and rethinking of a lot of things. Still, not bad for something I essentially thought up "on the spot", I suppose.

One thing about the chase scene that also screws me over a bit is the fact that "Rust" suddenly becomes more Kaibutsu-like when she enters Smile's room. Why would this happen? It doesn't make much sense. With your theory, it makes sense in that Sabi is being forced to relive being possessed, but Rust essentially has no reason to become like that.

Yeah, my theory on Rust seems to be sunk in quite a few places. Oh well. That's checkmate, my friend. I'll have to play again once I've come up with a stronger theory. I don't think .flow's events can be explained from the viewpoint of Rust being the one you control. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Alright. It took me a little bit of time, but I've managed to pull together a simple, but truly mad theory about what happened during .flow. Enjoy! Oh, and sorry for the double post, guys.

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Sabitsuki is insane. This whole Rust deal is a figment of her insane mind! In other words, Sabitsuki is not suffering from unknown virus/condition X! Allow me to demonstrate my evidence.

Case #1: Blood in the Apartment.

When Sabitsuki witnesses these "blood events", she leaves the .flow world and enters real life with blood all over her apartment. It was previously believed to be her puking up blood from her illness, but let's see another truth, shall we? Sabitsuki is physically harming herself because she cannot stand seeing these blood events! Let's turn things around, shall we? Look at it from Sabitsuki's point of view. She most likely does not see the world in pixels like we see .flow. Now think about the blood events again. You thought it was horrible when you played through it, imagine her viewpoint! Although we do not witness it, Sabitsuki goes into insane hysterics upon witnessing these things and most likely does something like smash her head against the desk or the wall and cause herself to bleed everywhere! You could counter this by asking, "where is the blood on her forehead, Yama?", but I could easily strike back by asking where the blood on her mouth is if she were puking blood! To be fair, she has no visible injuries, and I can only assume this is because of graphical limitations. Effectively, there is no way for anyone prove that this didn't happen! You can prove that the devil exists, but you can't prove that he doesn't!

Case #2: Rust

This is what I'm most proud of about this theory. Here's where things differ from the other theories A LOT. Sabitsuki did not actually transform into a Kaibutsu, but snapped from the pressure and became violently insane! When confronted by the Cleaner's chainsaw, Violent Sabitsuki grins sadistically and attempts to rush the Cleaner in an attempt to kill her. Violent Sabitsuki's madness allowed her to believe that she could kill someone armed with a chainsaw with her bare fists! But, the result is Violent Sabitsuki getting owned by the Cleaner and left to sit as a legless raging maniac who can't do shit because she can't move. I'd like someone to seriously examine Sabitsuki's "Kaibutsu form" sprites as I did. Compare them to the Kaibutsu sprites. The hair is darker, and there is none of the tell-tale blood coming from Violent Sabitsuki's head like there is from the Kaibutsu's. You could make a case for the Sugar Hole's Kaibutsu, but the hair is lighter on this one as well. The physical traits don't match up! Across all Kaibutsu, they all share very similar traits, but Sabitsuki alone is different! Next up, the laugh. During the endgame, you can hear a very faint Kaibutsu laugh underneath the Cleaner's chainsaw sounds. Many have taken this to believe that Sabitsuki is now a Kaibutsu, but watch as I blast that apart! If I were to do a perfect imitation of the Joker's laugh, would that mean that I am the Joker? No! I'm just Yama, Yama who can do a perfect imitation of the Joker's laugh. Sabitsuki is Sabitsuki who can do a perfect imitation of the Kaibutsu laugh. I mentioned that she only thought she was a Kaibutsu, did I not? She's perfectly getting into the role of Kaibutsu! And for the finale, that Cleaner? Turns out the Cleaners do indeed exist outside of Sabitsuki's mind, and aren't a figment of her imagination. She must have noticed some ruckus coming from Sabitsuki's room during one of her blood event fits, but eventually braved up and went into the room. She noticed the blood, readied her weapon and went out on the balcony. She was met with Violent Sabitsuki and her crazed smile and readied her weapon. As Violent Sabitsuki chuckled and ran at the Cleaner, she attacked, and managed to chop Violent Sabitsuki's legs off, possibly by accident (she got scared and closed her eyes). Cue credits.

And with that, we reach checkmate! Anything from her mind can be waived with this one simple premise:

The human mind, especially in dreams (and especially when insane) twists and distorts things.

Have you ever looked in a mirror in a dream and seen a weird distorted version of you, or perhaps nothing at all? It's a common phenomenon, and it proves that what we see in dreams is not reliable enough to be used as truth in the real world. Basing things in .flow's reality off of things that are in Sabitsuki's mind is akin to saying that mirrors do indeed give that distortion effect when you look in them. We have no way of knowing what is real, and what is fabrication! The Kaibutsu? I have an explanation. Sabitsuki read a creepypasta that involved these creatures, and got scared by it. She went to sleep, but she was plagued by nightmares of these monsters. Consistently. (I had something happen to me similarly with Amigara Fault, except I didn't go mad and think that I was turning into a noodly DRR DRR person) She couldn't handle it anymore and vowed to not sleep. Computer binge, anyone? Why else do we use the computer to flow? You may say that we use the bed to save, but it is possible to play the game without ever saving, so that's useless. The dementia caused by her prolonged sleep deprivation caused her to think that she was feeling awful not because she wasn't sleeping, but because she had the Kaibutsu virus! As a sort of placebo effect, it became real to her. It never was real, so she didn't actually suffer the effects, but she did wind up absolutely snapping by the game's end, and at that point, the virus didn't exist to her anymore. She was just driven violently mad through a combination of paranoia from her belief that she had the virus, disturbing visions playing in her head, and sleep deprivation. But that's only one possible scenario, and it's a pretty weak one. I'm just demonstrating that there are a lot of possible scenarios here.

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And there we have it. My new theory. I came about this by realizing one important thing; Sabitsuki's mind is not to be trusted. When I contemplated what was real and what wasn't in Sabi's mind, I began to ponder if I could somehow spin it so that Sabitsuki wasn't actually afflicted. I found plenty of evidence, and since I had no obligation to believe any of the confusion and lies that Sabitsuki's mind spewed, I simply used evidence from what real world events occurred and went from there. Since the Kaibutsu are a major part of the story, I only dipped into them because I knew that they had some truth in them. Not in their existence, but in their effect on Sabitsuki.

If you think about it, this is sort of like the Anti-Fantasy solution to .flow. Claiming that there were no monsters or fantasy viruses, just an insane little girl who believed she had a virus, snapped, and attacked a maid and got brutalized for it.

Anyway, I apologize for the longass post, but after nearly reaching a truth the first time, I couldn't put this puzzle down. Thank you very much if you bothered to read the whole thing. If you did, I commend you and give you a major reward. Good job, soldier!

>>1578

You're right, I failed to realize that. To have Rust take a Kaibutsu form and still consider him killing Smile as a good thing would make it so Sabitsuki thought becoming a Kaibutsu was something positive, and that directly conflicts with the rest of the theory

I liked your new theory, and found little wrong with it. It IS a significant "little" though, so you'll have to think of how to make it fit

But first, about the Kaibutsu bit. Look at the pic, or rather, save it and zoom in. That's what gives you the Uniform effect. Right after getting this effect, you'll hear a Kaibutsu cackle as you're exiting the room. This means that Sabitsuki, at a certain point of her Kaibutsu degeneration, can also look like that (and probably the other ones too, but we only see this stage for Sabitsuki seeing as it's her own degeneration she's worrying about)

Still, this doesn't interfere with your theory. The only defining physical characteristic about this Kaibutsu stage on Sabitsuki is a huge grin, and, as you said, she may very well just be acting it out (this, of course, in accordance to your theory, and thus considering Kaibutsus aren't real, or otherwise that she isn't affected by whatever Kaibutsus have that causes said degeneration)

Now for the rest. I couldn't find any flaws in your theory but two, but they're closely related

First, that Sabitsuki's mind can't be trusted at all. Of course, when one plays a YN fangame, we get accustomed to thinking of what we see in the dream world as metaphors and symbolism for other things. So if a maid took a chainsaw and cut your legs during an in-game event, we probably wouldn't thinking anything of it (much like the dying girls event)

And that's why this game's True Ending is such a slap to the face. Because it's proof of what we've seen in her dream world. Not everything, of course, but hell, isn't a chainsaw-wielding, gas mask-wearing maid a weird enough thing for its validation to have an impact on our viewpoint of the stuff that happens in her subconscious world?

And the second thing is just that. That a chainsaw and gas mask-clad maid appeared at the end means that there's more to it than simply Sabitsuki being a looney. Not that it invalidates your theory or anything, but it certainly does invalidate those bits regarding the maid's apparent unawareness of what is happening, especially since this Cleaner pulls out her chainsaw before Sabitsuki showed any sort of reaction at all

Last edited 11/07/20(Wed)14:16.

i read the whole thread yesterday and have a few things to add

i didn't get into .flow until 0.10 because i didn't want to play until it was finished. admittedly i paid a lot more attention to the school related themes than the hospital ones, so i didn't get any of this terminal illness vibe until i started reading about it after i beat the game. but here is a theory i compiled from what i read (i saw opposition to this theory early in the thread, but from what i gather it was only because of a misread filename and a lack of further evidence)

in this theory, i posit once again that the black haired girl who appears throughout the game was sabitsuki's mother. someone thought the filename for her death event in the womb area was called "mother" but it's not. it's called 鬼子, which google translate will return as "devils" while asking you whether you meant chinese or japanese. the individual kanji mean "demon" or "ghost" and "child" respectively. a youtube video claims that the word currently refers to a child born with teeth or a child who doesn't resemble its parents. i'm not familiar enough with the term's usage to say whether or not this is worth noting, but sabitsuki's apparent mental obsession with teeth and her white hair color (as opposed to her mother's black) work with these specific definitions respectively. otherwise simply "demon child" will work for what i have to say

this all hinges on the part of the hospital that can only be entered by elevator. it's difficult to know whether the tiny patients are children or just "faces in the crowd" like the tiny people at the school or the tiny woman at the bar. the relative size of npc's seems dictated by their significance in sabitsuki's memory

when entered from the plant area, this particular ward of the hospital is decent looking and no one is dead on the floor. the first room has an empty bed. the second room has the black haired girl, who is larger than the rest of the characters in this section, either because she is older or simply more important. i'd say this is sabitsuki's mother approaching labor

returning to this area from the "parade" elevator shows most of the patients dead on the floor. in the empty room is now a tiny sabitsuki, implying a younger one? and where the black haired girl's room was is now an entrance to the endgame "dying girls" scene. there we see her gut swell and bust open. sabitsuki then either looks into or tries to enter it. i've seen people speculate that smile's size on the rooftop scene indicates that sabitsuki was much younger than him at the time of that memory. the same could apply here. sabitsuki is small enough to fit inside the girl's wound

what i believe this implies is that sabitsuki was an actual demon child. her mother's hospital room becomes a sort of gateway to hell in a way that's reminding me of poltergeist movies. sabitsuki's birth, or explosive exit from her mother's womb, was the event that warped the hospital and killed many of the patients. young sabitsuki was then placed in the adjacent room shortly after.

all this demonic nonsense could simply be metaphorical. i even discounted the fact that sabitsuki seems to grow horns as the red demons mutate her. i figured "it must just be blood or patches of her hair falling out. pixels can only show so much." but i later saw that lol drew a picture of evil sabitsuki with actual horns. the red demons and some of the mutated sperm have these as well. i suppose horns could still be sabitsuki's personal metaphor for her hideous mutation. i happen to lean more toward the supernatural stuff myself because it kind of bores me to think this was all the result of a disease i mean come on who needs another sob story

about the "body" and "womb" areas, i remember reading somewhere that this is a part of sabitsuki's mental world where she goes to lament her mutated/demonic conception. this is her mother's body, and she also sees little versions of her mother everywhere in it. reaching the dying mother scenes requires sabitsuki to kill her over and over (unless you use the whistle), like she did when she was born. the implications could go two ways: she is plagued by the knowledge that she caused her mother's death, OR killing her mother is her way of trying to retroactively prevent her own conception. the three headed sperm deep inside the more demonic recesses of the body shows three different iterations of sabitsuki. a faceless one, the normal sabitsuki. one with a giant smiling mouth, the evil sabitsuki we see chasing people around with a pipe. and one that is bloodied and horned, the demonic sabitsuki we see in endgame. more than likely this image is purely symbolic, but it's interesting to note that an instance of more than one sperm reaching an egg at one time, while extraordinarily rare, is catastrophic for the baby. anything can happen when demons are involved right

once again this supernatural interpretation can be taken literally or figuratively, but my tastes lean toward literally

i think this post contains everything i have related to the 鬼子 filename so i'll talk about other stuff in a different post wow this is long

Last edited 11/07/20(Wed)14:25.

>>1585

There are a great deal of things which aren't taken into account in your theory, and while I guess some might have been missed, I can't believe all of that would have slipped through unless you intentionally overlooked a some of it. You shouldn't do this. If your theory isn't holding up then revise it until you feel there aren't any holes, or else it'll end up as just another theory no one pays attention to

Ok, even though nothing points that way, let's assume the girl in blue is Sabitsuki's mother. Nothing to point regarding the map name, Demon Child is exactly the conclusion I arrived at as well.

Once again, of course I agree seeing Sabitsuki as a child indicates this is a memory of that place somewhere in the past

Now we arrive at your description of the dying girls event. Surely enough, the giant girl's swollen belly dissolves and out comes a grey, vaguely human fetus. But at the same time, her face dissolves too, and the remaining little girls burst apart, and you've failed to mention where do these fit in your theory

Sabitsuki was small enough to fit into the hole in the giant girl's body, but so are the other girls, and by extension the demons which you can see just roaming around in the body area during the Rust chapter, and stand at the same height as the girls that we find in the same area

You're saying this event caused some sort of explosion due to its demonic source, and that is the reason the child testing facility has a lot of dead children at some point. But then, where are the scorch marks on the hospital walls? Something that killed that many children would certainly leave its mark

Her figure becomes more and more demonic as she gets further corrupted by the demons, and the horns are quite clearly visible from the side at one point, so there's no need for you to not mention that as a point in favour of your theory

Finally, nothing to point about this bit, the area is open to interpretation and it makes sense to think it might be that girl's body we're traveling through, as she's visible throughout the whole thing

Now get to thinking and refine that theory so it doesn't have these holes anymore. We need a theory that looks at things from a supernatural point of view as well, and yours is interesting enough for this role

>>1580

The situation with the Cleaner was merely a suggestion of what may have happened. A very quick one at that. The Cleaners are proven to exist in real life, so I can use information from Sabitsuki.

Although, first off, even though the game is not first person, we still may be seeing through the lens of Sabitsuki's madness. She perhaps perceived that the Cleaner was going to attack first.

Alternatively, we can use some evidence from Sabi's mind to get her perception of them. Chiefly, we can use that area where you get the tumbling doll effect from her. It's filled with Kaibutsu (the main thing Sabi fears) and loud music, combined with our Cleaner buddy sitting eerily at the end, and if I recall right, she's standing near some sort of corpse or bloody object.

I think perhaps the Cleaners (given their name and similar attire) might be part of a gang rather than just some random paranoid maid venturing into Sabi's room to see what's up.

First off, we have their name: Cleaners. Almost sounds like a team name (LETS GO CLEANERS LETS GO YEEEAAAHHHH). Second, they've all got maid outfits and gas masks, which could possibly the "uniform" for the Cleaner gang. But that leaves us questioning their purpose and their history with Sabitsuki. Was Sabitsuki involved with Cleaners and knew about the atrocities they committed (cutting people's limbs off)? Considering that we access the area with the tumbling doll effect by interacting with a seemingly normal and innocent object (a painting) I can only assume that Sabitsuki accidentally learned about what the Cleaners really did, and it terrified her enough for it to leave a mark on her. It's very possible the Sabitsuki might also have been on the run from the Cleaners this whole time, and they happened to find her as she was losing her mind. In addition, it serves as an extra pressure that would drive her further off the deep end.

What the Cleaner's goals are? That's a mystery. They seem to enjoy lopping off limbs, so I'm guessing that that is their way of killing and torturing their victims. Perhaps they run the Sugar Hole and very, very viciously defend it. Speaking of viciously defending the Sugar Hole, that unusual Kaibutsu who drinks a wields a steel pipe may represent Sabitsuki and her various acts of violence towards enemies of the Cleaners. That is, until she stumbled across one of the Cleaner's little dismembering parties and got the fuck out of there, terrified of the sheer inhumanity of it. I wouldn't doubt that the Cleaners have other shady dealings thanks to their limb-chopping off thing. Maybe they sell the human limbs on the black market as a way of helping the Sugar Hole stay in business? I've got no proof, but it makes for an interesting back story.

Either way, they are about 100% more interesting to me now that I think about it.

>>1593

The maid isn't sitting, though. She's just like the ones from before. She'll even bow if you talk to her. And the object you interact with to get the tumbling doll effect is a chainsaw, that's why I said things from her dreams were validated. Can't be a coincidence for a maid to be standing next to a chainsaw, and then for a chainsaw-wielding maid to appear in the True Ending, after all

Are you actually wondering about what Cleaner means, or just thinking of an hypothesis that fits your theory? I couldn't understand which one it was, so here's an answer to both

If it's the first:

Usually, operations that are run in secret, whether by the government, the army or an assortment of shadowy companies, are depicted to rely on clean-up teams, whose function is to make sure they stay secret. A cleaner's job usually encompasses burning down buildings where incriminating evidence may be while making it look like an accident, eliminating witnesses, and capturing/executing fugitives. Basically, anything that helps make sure the truth doesn't get out. You can see them in action in movies like "Nikita" and "Leon: The Professional"

If it's the second, then I don't really have anything major to point out, seeing as you already said there wasn't any proof

If anything, I'd say it that were the case then they'd choose a different attire for their unpleasant activities. They'd have to be pretty dumb to carry out those acts in plain daylight while using the exact same clothes they use in their bar/hotel

Last edited 11/07/20(Wed)19:32.

>>1595

Hehehe, I didn't literally mean sitting. I meant to put sitting there, but I must have accidentally left that out.

Some things have some validation for being in her dreams. But not everything does, and it's up to the player to decide what has meaning and what is just the product of a fevered mind. I only cited the Cleaners that were in her dreams because they actually turned out to exist. So we can safely glean information from Sabitsuki's dreams about them since they are real.

I was less questioning it, and was trying to leave it more open to interpretation. I'm sure you could find a hundred different theories on what sort of relationship Sabitsuki and the Cleaners have.

Although, I hadn't really thought about that connection regarding clean-up crews before. That's pretty good, I like that!

Now, I need to find a way to explain how Sabitsuki recognizes the Cleaners as maids even though they obviously wouldn't wear those outfits when doing something awful like that. Perhaps it's just a form that she's most familiar with and thus see them that way? No, that can't work because a Cleaner clearly takes down Crazed!Sabitsuki in her maid outfit... Perhaps they really are dumb enough to do stuff like that in their maid outfits. Oh wow.

>>1596

Haha, guess those gas masks are there to hide their dumb look then

Seriously now, why not the other way around? Considering how seeing them amputate a person with a chainsaw would cause WAY more of an impact than seeing them serving drinks and cake at Sugar Hole, Sabitsuki's predominant image of them would certainly be one with the outfit they'd use during this act

In other words, their maid-like activities would be utterly eclipsed by their eastern mafia-like activities, so much so that Sabitsuki would end up only picturing them the way they looked while doing the latter. It'd make sense to think that is what they'd wear in such situations, seeing as those gas masks would serve to hide their faces as well

Now don't go thinking you're converting me! I'm merely helping improve a good theory

>>1579

Nah, not gonna try to force my beliefs about the game on ya. I don't roll that way. Anyway, I think I've got this theory down.

You know, it might be fun to look at this game from a supernatural point of view and not tiptoe around the rest of the stuff in her mind. That's the only thing I dislike about my theory is that it skips around some of the coolest characters like Smile.

>>1598

It doesn't have to, though. I'm sure you could come up with a number of ways to include Smile in it

>>1588

i'll address your criticisms one at a time

i don't feel the need to take into account the individual dying or dead girls. it's more like a vague symbol of dying that leads up to the more specific symbol of dying in labor, which is a truth that you have to work toward. up until then, all you know is that she dies a lot, but not how or why. can't reveal it all up front

as for her face, "anything can happen when demons are involved" is not an evasive answer. i don't even need to mention that a deteriorating face is a symptom of whatever sabitsuki is apparently carrying. overall my answer is that not every little detail needs to be explained away, especially when the causes are supernatural. in fact, i thought she was merely puking up blood, which is a stereotypical reaction to almost any kind of intense physical trauma without asking "was blood leaking into her lungs or stomach?" i even find that trying to identify sabitsuki's illness with a specific existing disease is unnecessary since it's probably just a fictitous amalgamation of random symptoms to express the simple fact: "she's ill"

i feel you're overthinking the size issue as well, sabitsuki is the only character whose interaction with the wound is important here

i said "explosive exit" to describe an abnormal, possibly violent exit from the womb. not an actual firey explosion. it's hyperbole, creative use of words. the harm done to the facility was supernatural in nature, like the inexplicable way a ghost harms a corporeal being. when hell breaks loose upon earth, crazy stuff usually goes down

i do believe the horns are in favor of my theory at this point, i wasn't discounting them

in short i do not see any of the things you've mentioned as holes in my theory, but misunderstandings
in my analyses i try to consider the limitations of symbolism, particularly in such a simplistically styled work

thank you for your interest

Theory: Sabi is in college and lives in a dorm. This is why she sleeps at the computer instead of her bed (ALWAYS WORKING AUGH)

>>1601

But why wouldn't you feel that need? The girls are small versions of the giant one, which is the focal point of an event which represents the core of your theory. To leave something like that hanging just doesn't make sense, at least the way I see it

Nothing to point out about this paragraph. Having ascertained that abdomen dissolves due to the demonic birth, relegating what happens to her face to this event is a logically sound move

I'm not overthinking anything. I simply talked about the size difference, which you used as an argument in your post. And what interaction do you mean? She never actually enters the wound, all she does is approach it

Nothing to point out here. That's quite a satisfactory explanation

My bad then, I misread that part of your post

Maybe holes was too strong a word, but they're definitively weak points, so to speak. The goal of a theory is to explain something, and as such using arguments which are vague/have no logically sound footing is undesirable, to say the least

Now, I'm not saying you have to give an argument and present it as an unchangeable pillar in your theory. But you should at least give an example of what it COULD mean, so the theory doesn't have any loose ends

For example, you could say something like "while I have no definite opinion on this, perhaps the dying girls around the giant one represent a sort of sacrifice which was carried out in order to summon the demon". This would make it sound plausible enough for the whole "opening of the gates of Hell" part you mentioned as well, and it would be one thing less that was left unexplained

Last edited 11/07/21(Thu)18:54.

>>1570
that is just amazing. that theory is what i believe in now, it just fits so well..
i'm curious about where you think smile and his sister fit in all this, they sure look like they're important to sabi, and there arent a lot of theories about them yet.

>>1614

i guess you don't have to read this but if you do, it's my attempt to make it as painfully clear as possible why i don't think any of the "weak points" you listed are actual weak points because we apparently absorb details in very different ways

i feel that assigning meaning to the presence of multiple instances of the same girl is unnecessary because my impression was that it's simply repeatition for dramatic effect. not every little detail has to be taken 100% literally. for example, feeling bad about inadvertently causing someone's death, let's say by crashing a car, could reasonably lead to nightmares about either watching that person fall to bloody pieces over and over again or nightmares about stabbing them to death yourself over and over again. it doesn't mean that either of these events actually happened or that there are a bunch of the same person. it is simply how your guilt manifests itself in your mental plane. so the melting girls and the exploding gut girl are actually pointing to one same event and not two different events. it's just that the melting girls are a more vague symbol copied and pasted for effect while the exploding gut girl is more reminiscent of the actual birth event that the melting girls are merely symbolic of does this make sense

but i'll humor you with a surprisingly plausible theory someone came up with earlier today. i was discussing this with a person, and they offered the simple suggestion that this birthing ritual was attempted on many different girls before one survived long enough to deliver sabitsuki. all the others impregnated with sabitsuki's DNA died before she was even developed enough to be removed via c-section. whether it was the doing of an underground cult or genetic engineering or whatever, we can discuss in another post. this addition to my theory assigns meaning to the multiple girls, instead of considering them symbolic repeatition for effect. but then you might ask "why do they all appear to be the same girl?" and assuming i buy into this multiple test subject theory, i'll answer: "because the test subjects were not important enough as characters to design more than one." or more meaningfully: "because a girl with black hair in her face is the image for 'demon surrogate mother' in .flow's visual vocabulary." but these answers are similar to my first answer about visual repeatition, and likely will not be accepted

the idea of the multiple melting girls representing failed attempts to birth the demon child is valid, but the idea of them simply being symbolic representations of the ONE girl's death is just as valid. repeatition is a powerful symbolic tool. for example…the scene in twilight princess where link hallucinates multiple instances of ilia. it didn't mean THERE ARE ACTUALLY A LOT OF ILIA. it just illustrated her significance in that one scene, or maybe it was just to be trippy and dramatic. kind of a dumb example but i couldn't think of a better one

approaching the wound or even standing in front of it IS some manner of interacting with it. the scene wouldn't be there if it weren't important. but my point was that this is sabitsuki's dream/vision and her perception of things is all that matters. it doesn't matter that smile or red demons or any other character could also fit inside the girl's wound because it's not THEIR dream. if you had a dream about walking into your giant mother's uterus, would it matter that your normal sized friends could do the same? no, because it's your dream and walking into your mother's uterus would have no personal meaning to them. now if you dreamed about watching a friend walk into your mother's uterus, it might have some meaning to you like i don't know "he's like a brother to me" or something not quite that dumb but you get the idea. but that's not what happened in sabitsuki's vision. she bashed the black haired girl to death several times, then watched her die on her own several times, then watched what was effectively a faithful reenactment of the girl's actual death and it shed some factual light on all the inexplicable deaths that led up to it. that was how i saw it

while i'm not one to inject meaning into things anyway, i try to avoid doing so because i see it all the time among homestuck fans (of which there seem to be many here). they read too much into everything and then their assertions are promptly proven wrong upon the next pertinent update, so sorry if i am hostile to this sort of aggressive analyzing

i don't know how to be any clearer about these things, but i don't think i'm wrong and i'd like to move on from the mother theory to other parts of the game

Calm down miss no need to be aggressive

< I've just remembered something particular about Silent Hill 3.

>>1627
i am raging you have no idea

>>1628
yeah the similarities between sabitsuki and heather are endless
even the rust and blood motif is a staple of silent hill
but overall .flow still feels very different

>>1620

Thank you very much, I'm glad you liked it

I do, and in fact it is possibly the most important part of my global theory. I'm really sorry, but since I'm still working on some parts of it I can't release such a central piece of my theory by itself, or it might appear a bit farfetched since it won't have proper arguments

>>1623

I honestly have no idea what prompted such reaction for you. Forward as my posts might have been, I don't think they could be mistaken for anything other than positive criticism, with clear intent of helping improve upon your theory, or rather, the way you were exposing it

I do not believe what I said was so unreasonable that you would have to "humor" me with anything. I listed what I saw as improvable because you were introducing your theory to a wide audience, and as such making it compatible with all types of readers, and not just those that like vague theories, would be something of interest to you, or so I thought. Regardless, if you did not wish to continue the conversation all you had to do was state it, instead of resorting to such condescending expressions

Rest assured, you don't have to worry about my aggressive criticism any longer

Last edited 11/07/22(Fri)23:08.

>>1632
oh
i didn't mean to sound angry or condescending so sorry it came across that way
i was just trying to explain myself as clearly as possible since it seemed i didn't do a good job the first time, i mean because you asked me twice about why i wouldn't elaborate on the girls

guess i should have said "meet half way" instead of "humor." again sorry, it didn't sound offensive when i wrote it

i'm not asking you to step off or something. i can appreciate your criticism and accept it without further argument when i think it's well placed, but i felt like we weren't on the same page so i wanted to get us there first. and i probably misunderstood you too
i admit it did get a little frustrating trying to articulate the really abstract impressions i had, not to mention wordy

anyway i'll change my tone and we can resume our brainstorming as buddies, is that cool

>>1633

My reaction was probably a bit too much. Sorry about that

Yeah, the "humor" bit was what got me that way. It implies the other party has ridiculous/wild expectations, you see

I didn't know, until your last post, that you had such an aversion to explaining everything about a particular event, and would rather leave things up to interpretation. That was why I insisted on getting a clarification regarding the little girls' part in your theory

I only did so because, as I'm sure you've noticed seeing as you read this thread, some people would rather conveniently ignore details than openly admit the holes in their theory (which I realize is not your case at all). I was asking you to give something that would make it slightly less vague, just because this way you wouldn't risk being taken for one of these people, and subsequently ignored

Well, this is irrelevant now. I know you like to focus on the main picture and I'll be directing my thoughts there from now on

I didn't really do any thinking in the last posts, but I did return to the event in question when before typing this post, so if you don't mind please answer these points when you post with the next bit of your theory

But first, when I said she made no interaction with the wound I wasn't trying to take away any importance from her approaching it. I just meant she didn't actually do anything; yet approaching was a straining enough action to trigger the end of that dream world session

On with my observations, then. I have returned to that place during the Rust chapter to examine things better. I noticed, for once, that her size is actually quite bigger than I remembered. When compared to the giant girl, her height is at least that of the girl's legs plus 3/4ths of her chest, as seen in the second part of the picture

So I started thinking along lines other than the size difference between Sabitsuki and the giant girl, and I've come to believe the main focus of this event is actually the fetus

As you can see in the first part of the picture, even at the closest point possible, she's still quite a bit away from the wound, but the fetus is right at her feet. Also, it's very likely this is the reason that the girl is giant in the first place; given the game's pixely nature, and consequent impossibility to add fine details, an increase in size was needed to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that a fetus was falling from her abdomen when it dissolved

I know, it's not really something that changes your theory, since it wasn't at all reliant on the size factor in the first place. But I'd like to know what's your take on this

Last edited 11/07/23(Sat)22:58.

>>1646
i guess i hadn't noticed a lot of theories being ignored for their holes
perhaps because i ignored them myself (!!!)

onto your observations. given what i have said about details, i guess i would not be one to analyze the exact proportions between sabitsuki and the giant girl. for me, the very fact that she is so large is enough to make the implications i listed above. and that is due in part to the game's simplistic style. however, this very argument makes your suggestion (that her size is required simply to get the right amount of detail on the gut spillage and emphasize the fetus) equally plausible in a mind like mine. so maybe you're right. but i guess it's not worth debating since it supports my theory either way haha. and i see no reason why both symbols could not be present at once! just semantics

in short, i have no opposition to what you're saying and either theory (or both) could be true

side note: if you go to the body world during the rust chapter, all instances of the living black-haired girl, save the one sitting on the throne, will begin melting shortly after you enter a room with them. no apparent change from the one in the hospital bed though

[I APOLOGIZE FOR INCOMING WALL OF TEXT]

Something that I've had on my mind for like a month now.
You know the ending sequence of .flow? The one where Sabitsuki walks past various NPCs across the screen? (starts at 4:00 in this video)
If we assume the order of passing NPCs reflect on a chronology of Sabitsuki's life, it actually makes A LOT sense, sort of.
Let's look at the order:
1. Blue women
2. dead blue woman (or rather, a decaying pile of...red stuff)
3. the gardener
4. dead children. The doctor and nurse are among them
5. more dead children
6. monochrome cyborg girl
7. decapitated monochrome cyborg girl
8. young Sabitsuki in a scarf
9. The 3 kaibutsu that chase you throughout the game
10. Smile and sister
11. the "special kaibutsu" from the corrupted school area who looks a whole lot like Sabitsuki. She's bloody and holds a pipe.
12. a cluster of all the NPCs/objects whom she obtained the effects from during the course of the game.
13. In the center of cluster is a grinning Sabitsuki (the one that gives you the uniform effect before disappearing). She is standing between Smile and Oreko, but closer to Oreko.
14. 20 million red demons
15. Oreko. With bubbles coming from her helmet.
16. Cleaner/Maskmaid, who bows to Sabitsuki before she walks offscreen and everything fades to black.

I tried to make sense of this list, using context from rest of the game:

1. The blue woman might be Sabitsuki's mother. She was terminally ill when Sabitsuki was very young. (a scene from the game shows the woman on a hospital bed, much like scene where we find little Sabitsuki in the alleyway hospital)
2. Sabitsuki's mother died. Possibly via failed surgery, due to the random event of the woman's stomach exploding.
3. The gardener could represent someone who took care of Sabitsuki after her mom died? She must've been pretty important to Sabitsuki, as many sections of Sabitsuki's subconscious are covered in plants. (Some plant-covered areas also have heart monitors and sick children wandering through them, so maybe Sabitsuki got sick around that time.)
4. Sabitsuki's illness worsened and then she was admitted to a hospital. This illness does both physical and mental damage to the victim.
5. Most of the children with the same disease died.
6. Sabitsuki, the only survivor of the lot, was able to live through the help ofmechanical implants of some sort. Machines are a prevalent imagery in Sabitsuki's mind, and personally I think it was because they are linked to her very survival. At this point she made Oreko, an imaginary friend (or a maybe a character) who lived underwater and fixed machines. (this is indicated by how a hospital area is linked to the ocean area)
7. However, the machine didn't fix all of Sabitsuki's problems. It might have helped her recover physically, it was not able to repair all of the mental damage. That's why the cyborg girl's head was falling off. This comes to bite Sabitsuki in the back later, in the form of Rust.
8. Sabitsuki eventually got out of the hospital and tried to live a normal life. She was still physically weak, as indicated by the scarf.
9. Later Sabitsuki was declared fit for school. But during that time, her deranged mental state (represented by the schooluniform-clad kaibutsu) started catching up to her. (That's why there were Kaibutsu still chasing her during the game, as she didn't want her mind deteriorate)
10. Despite this, Sabitsuki tried to befriend Smile, someone who was very similar to her, but...
11. Her Rust persona (born as an accumulation of her mental damage) surfaced, destroying whatever positive relationships she had. This theory might explain some things. Later, Sabitsuki found out that Smile also had an alternate persona, and became aware of the gravity of the situation.
12. Sabitsuki tried out a special mental exploration software, flow, in an attempt to get to the bottom of this. Through flow, she learned a great deal about herself. The effects she found can reflect her interests (i.e. headphones), her memories (i.e. tattoo), or what defined her as a whole (i.e. cyborg). The effects defined Sabitsuki as a person.
13. Even though she wasn't able to fix her problem, she discovered that Oreko, her childhood imaginary friend, existed as a very powerful being in her mind. Through tinkering with Sabitsuki's mental machinery, Oreko was able to preserve Sabitsuki's sanity and held back Rust for a long time. (The scene in the orange maze even showed Oreko holding hands with a bleeding Sabitsuki seems to indicate this.) Oreko is the first of Sabitsuki's innate defense mechanism against the total invasion of Rust. However, this was not a permanent solution.
14. When Sabitsuki finished the software, she lost all her effects. (you know, the things that defined her as a person). She was essentially losing her identity. Her Rust persona was able to exploit this weak point and took over her mind and then BAM HERE COMES THE ENDGAME. In the endgame, there are no more Kaibutsu because her mind had already deteriorated (see #9 above). Oreko is also missing from the endgame, which means nobody was holding Rust back. Hundreds of red imps were released as asecond tier defense mechanism, but they are weak and could only slow down Rust a little bit. Rust's goal in the endgame was to gain access to three areas that even Sabitsuki couldn't visit. These three areas allowed Rust to locate the hallway that led to "the core", or what's left of Sabitsuki's original personality. This hallway was definitely supposed to be inaccessible, since it was heavily guarded by red imps. Rust was able to get past them (although not without injury) and destroyed the core. Then Rust was able to completely take over Sabitsuki's body.
15. Although Oreko was missing in the endgame, she still had a lot to do with what happened next. (the fact that she was second-last in the ending sequence means that she's pretty important) She knows Rust had to be stopped, and might be responsible for activating Sabitsuki's second and third tier defenses.
16. Cleaner/Maskmaid was Sabitsuki's third and final defense against Rust. She's sort of like an "emergency plan" in case the rest of the defenses fail, and only comes out when Rust was able to take over completely. In my theory,Rust could not be killed previously since she was just a part of Sabitsuki's mind, but IF she took over Sabitsuki, she's no longer PART of Sabitsuki's mind. She became a separate entity that CAN be killed! And Cleaner did just that.
But even with Rust gone, Sabitsuki could not just return to normal since Rust destroyed her original persona. She either became braindead or fell into a coma. Cleaner carried her unconsious body and placed it in an area that two blue women, the same ones as (#1) from above. This is the place that contained Sabitsuki's lost memories. My farfetched theory says Oreko created this place using the testtube Sabitsuki in the endgame, which served like a backup persona (kind of like backup files on a computer, if we're still using machine analogies). Sabitsuki starts her walk and the game ends.
In short, the ending sequence means Sabitsuki was going through her memories and regaining her identity.

Happy ending?

Last edited 11/07/24(Sun)00:19.

>>1652

>>1650

Yes, whether or not the fetus is the focal point isn't really of importance to my theory either, but it might be for someone else's. Just putting it out there

Yeah, I noticed that after 0.15 came out, and I actually thought it was one of 0.15's few new features. Sorry, but I really don't know why she's the only one that doesn't burst into ribbons

>>1652

Farfetched, maybe, but certainly not without merit. Besides, realizing that the ending credits acted as a timeline for the events on Sabitsuki's life was a very good observation on your part

If anything, I'd only say Oreko couldn't fulfill the role you assigned her in your theory. I've recently explored the game's files to get info on the Oreko's Friendship Meter for the .flow wiki, and if you kill Oreko enough times she'll disappear completely for a good number of dream world sessions, leaving her diving helmet behind

So basically, you can beat Oreko so badly she'll cease to exist in Sabitsuki's mind temporarily. Even so, nothing bad occurs during that time. Other than that I have nothing major to point out

>>1652
huh i had the same idea but i was trying to figure out the role of the gardener (and plant world in general) before i posted it

well it was a teeny bit different but for the most part it's almost shorthand for your post:
-mother (conception)
-mound of flesh that was mother (birth)
-scarecrow gardener guy (i got nothing)
-doctor, nurse, and dead children (postnatal stay at hospital)
-monochrome girl (i've heard people say that monochrome areas are child's drawings)
-young sabitsuki (childhood)
-kaibutsu, smile, and sabitsuki in a uniform (high school)
-dream exploration (after becoming a shut in)
-red demons (nearing the end of dream exploration)
-oreko (perhaps she actually did costruct some proesthetic legs, which are allowing sabitsuki to walk through the credits? i don't know i thought oreko was imaginary so it's probably more symbolic)
-cleaner (though she could be there simply to bow to the player at the credits' end)

we need more theories about plant world. and is it generally agreed upon that the monochrome girl is a cyborg, i mean her legs do look like it and it would definitely fit into this chronology. shoot, looks like a good time to make a lengthy post about sabitsuki's legs now

about sabitsuki's limbs

i wanted to note some things about where we find the tumbling doll effect. we've established that it's through a chainsaw next to a cleaner maid in a bloody world inhabited by rabid kaibutsu. on my way there, i was interested by all the bloody (or rusted) pipes protruding from the abyss. the place is like a more abstract and scary version of the slums outside the cafe, where there are brick walls and exposed rusty piping every which way. so i'm running around looking for the maid and paying close attention to these pipes. when i find her, i notice that the pipes around her are all covered in bleeding fleshy bits, as is the direct path toward her. i'm not sure what kind of violence or struggle this implies since the pipe is generally sabitsuki or a kaibutsu's weapon of choice. it could simply be there to reinforce the flesh element and not mean anything but that's no fun

anyway, we know that this maid saws off sabitsuki's legs in the end. she approaches her with the chainsaw even before sabitsuki becomes menacing, so she clearly has a goal that is not simply self defense. and she does not finish sabitsuki off afterward. what is so important about amputation

it's been noted that while the maid's tumbling doll effect takes away your limbs, oreko's machine effect gives you prosthetic ones. here i'd like to point out some of lol's art. if any of these links are broken, it's because i have no idea how pixiv works. i mean, i don't even know how to view a gallery. all i can do is scroll through the submissions. anyway:

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=4518784
this drawing on his pixiv account is entitled "killer" in english, and google translate gets "prosthesis child" from the only legible part of the short description

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=14014100
google translate gets "child prosthesis" from the title of this submission, and you can make what you will of the description

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=2711488
this one i can't make much sense of, but "original character" is in the description, and it was submitted january 1, 2009. was this before development of .flow began? in any case it shows the chainsaw and the green cardiac monitor as well

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=15091010
while i'm here, the drawing of sabitsuki with horns (for my earlier post)

so sabitsuki's leg amputation seems pretty central to the plot. i wonder why not also her arms though, since the tumbling doll and machine effects include them. the plant effect, however, replaces only her legs with vines (while adding some flowers here and there). haven't fully thought out the significance of the plant hospital, but i've seen some suggest it's an alternative herbal remedy for sabitsuki's illness. so giving her a plant prosthesis instead of a machine one? i don't think literally, but symbolically in her mind perhaps. it's also kind of interesting that sabitsuki's speed increasing effect, the broom of course, is one that takes her legs out of the equation. while i don't want to read too much into it, perhaps her real life legs are in bad shape and useless. if the maid does not harm sabitsuki in ending 2, she at least carries her back to her room. this works with any disease theory
EDIT: if the monochrome girl IS a child's drawing and IS a cyborg, it would indicate that sabitsuki has been aware of her impending prosthesis since childhood

i've read some interpretations that are supported by these facts. only one i can think of at the moment: sabitsuki retreated to her room to avoid the amputation that the maid standing next to the tumbling doll effect seemed to gently urge her to go through with. if so, the bloody pipes may indicate her firm opposition to the idea

or maybe her legs are fine and the maids are part of a self righteous organization that is "cutting the bad out" of people. i admit a lot of this does remind me of rubyquest

>>1656

It's pretty much a given that the plant grafting is symbolic. Even though moving vines could be interpreted as a viable plant replacement for legs, I doubt replacing an eye with a flower would yield the desired results

Personally I don't think amputation is related to those effects. The machine effect, besides altering more than just the arms and legs, is found in a place far removed from the chainsaw and its surrounding areas. Same goes for the plant effect

I'm guessing Sabitsuki just associated the chainsaw, or rather, the chainsaw in close proximity to a Cleaner, to dismemberment. This because that same map has the three Kaibutsus, all of them aggressive (the stage she was entering during the true ending), which means she may already have witnessed such a scene in the past, only perpetrated on those Kaibutsus instead

Also, I wouldn't count cutting both her legs off as "not harming". The arteries present in a single leg are enough to cause a person to quickly bleed out when severed. Hacking away both legs is something that would require hasty medical intervention for the injured person to survive, and by the Cleaner's idle look as Sabitsuki is writhing on the floor, treating her wounds doesn't look like something that concerns her

Last edited 11/07/24(Sun)11:09.

>>1657
what if flower eyes can see as well as vine legs can walk
+_- looks it's a plus and minus haha

if we're going to assume that the relative locations of effects speaks to their plot significance, let's take a closer look at them… well, i was going to illustrate how these are all somehow connected to the hospital, but you could probably connect any two dots on the mental map if you tried hard enough, so i won't until i've explored some other theories. but i don't think they're especially removed.

i meant the maid might not harm sabitsuki in ending 2, where the screen is black between the maid's arrival and her carrying sabitsuki off, so i think you misunderstood me there. but point taken, she's in no hurry to stop the bleeding. we'll assume lol understands the urgent care required of a double leg amputation and conclude that the maid has less than noble motives (for this to be true, sabitsuki must be sitting up dead at the very end before flowbeet starts)

taking into consideration things that have been said recently, i considered that all instances of the maid appear in the slums by the hospital. if they are affiliated with the hospital, it supports the theory of them being cleaners for whatever scientific or demonic things the hospital might have been up to. the way you have it: sabitsuki's three infected classmates gradually approached their kaibutsu state, perhaps displaying disruptive behavior in school until deteriorating into the faceless creatures sabitsuki sees in her visions (this explains their inexplicable bleeding while in the passive state, as an early symptom sabitsuki may have observed). she then witnessed their dismemberment at the hands of a cleaner and retreated to her room to avoid the same fate, prevent herself from hurting others, or to have some time to simply process the events. this would somewhat explain why she returns to the school in the end (filenames confirm this), and why the cleaner seems to be there waiting for her. watching an event like that could be solely responsible for all the limb replacement imagery that sabitsuki unwittingly concocts (still not totally convinced in this area though).

guy i'm wondering what you have to say about the links i posted (do they work)

i want to talk about oreko a little. she is supposed to be sabitsuki's friend (evidenced at least by the friendship meter), and that's kind of a big deal in a world where everything seems to shun or kill her. plagued with images of dismemberment, oreko has crafted artificial limbs for her. she is an embodiment of benevolence

the red/blue pathway between music world and the hospital maze. after going through it many times, i asked myself. why would it have a heart in it? and somehow i realized it looked like a friendship bracelet. not only are hearts and diamond patterns pretty standard in friendship bracelets, but the tiles look like knots. i tried hard to think what the little red geysers had to do with it, until i realized they were releasing bubbles and not steam. they seem to be digitized music world versions of the bubbling rocks near oreko's underwater house (like that hooded creature in the sewer boardwalk). so i think this area is about her. kind of far fetched so i'll leave that up to you

but then it leads directly into the hospital maze. at the end of the maze is the room with the occupied bed. and then the cardiac monitor next to the bed leads to underwater world. and then the large cardiac monitor in underwater world leads to the weird digital world (which has another entrance but i forget from where). so if sequence of locations means anything, there are links between oreko, the hospital, and things that look digital.

alternatively: leaving the hospital maze takes you to blood and darkness world, which leads to the mangled body area, which leads to the womb (or the sewers). interesting implications if you reverse the order. but i need someone to tell me what those white things in blood and darkness world are supposed to be before i say anything about it

i'm starting to get a master theory under way but i'll hush for now. hate making such long posts. but this thread moves too slowly to focus on one detail at a time

>>1652
>>1570
I actually like both of these theories and consider them at the same time. I was also intrigued by hello's theory as well, but i have to say both hello and the guy are a bit overzealous about this whole thing. I don't think the guy does it intentionally on his part but he does shoot down people rather hastily, almost in a kind of rude way. I've only ever seen such behavior before from people who are like really close friends, or family, but not with strangers on an image board.

Just wanted to put that out there, its mostly the wording, like expectin everyone to put forward something flawless when a lot of folks here just want to put ideas out here so that people can be intrigued or build off of them. I personally don't get worked up about my ideas having holes or flaws because the game is still rather relative, and I myself think that people having radically different ideas is rather refreshing, but then again i often think of the game's backstory with different storylines just because its fun to try and think of things in a new light.

following that, I want to ask a question. Is that fetus thing you guys were talking about like, an accepted thing? I've never really saw anything I'd call a fetus. Even in your screen shots it just appears like someone's stomach opened up. There is something gray hanging out of her near Sabi's feet I see, but that can't be healthy. I think fetus isn't entirely impossible, but it could just be a degenerate organ.

What I like about the guy's theory is that it matches my own first impression of the last ending, that Sabi was trying to attack a disease. Its still kind of relative since the thing she attacks has its head down and appears to be in pain. I'm not sure yet whether it has to be Sabi attacking Rust or Rust attacking Sabi, I still think its kind of up in the air. The demons trying to infect you on the way to this point also complicate things further. But I think the guy's idea helps to clear that up.

They're both Sabi and Rust at the same time, in their own way, is what I choose to take from the ending after reading the guy's theory.

I think this because its rather hard for me to wrap my head around it if I assume its a black and white situation--you are definitely Sabi or definitely Rust, both won't make much sense to me when your name changes to Rust but the disease in the form of the demons is actually capable of killing your dreamself now, where previously they could not. That repeats itself in the last area where the demons are corrupting you as if to kill/stop you, and then you meet something that has the same appearance as you now do, head turned down, and you attack it. I think you play as "Sabi" at this point--you always play as Sabi, but during the Rust chapter Rust is who is really in control, and Sabi has no idea she's accidentally killing herself.

I've previously mentioned a bit about the school chase having a you are your worst enemy kinda thing, and I think that can also apply to the ending sequence, especially now that the new corrupted school chase we can access as rust follows a similar pattern--You are evading/dealing with red demons (btw I didn't let them touch me what do those dudes do if they catch you?), trying to get to the end, only to discover youv'e become one of the kaibutsu! And then ya get your game on with Smile and come out triumphant--only its Rust who triumphed, not Sabi. Sabi would have just let Smile strike her down.

I also don't know what to make of the kaibutsu suddenly turning into red demons, or the fact they're... so goopy. I noticed that when they appear they first appears a a puddle like thing (which makes me think that the disease exists predomenantly in the blood, since it resembles like pools of blood coming to life, plus the demons resemble red blood cells with horns, given that red blood cells have divets in the middle and the demons have the same, unless you choose to see them as eviscerated... things). I also don't know what to make of the fact those red demons are larger than the others--other than that it may have been artistic license to make them more frightening. Like hello, I'm willing to think not everything in the game has a hard meaning, but material that we're reading into lol just wanted to make something interesting.

I do not think the demons can be entities outside of a symbolic one, though. Previous theorists have proposed that the demons can be something different, either actual demons or kaibutsu who have lost their skin and all humanity. If they were "entities" the same way that Sabi, Rust, Smile, and Oreko are, I believe they'd have more than one direction they could face. Whenever they move, they always look "down" but can move in any direction they please. This is a very unnatural thing, so if they were creatures I think they'd have front, backs, and sides, like the kaibutsu do.

Why Kaibutsu Sabi in the school chase are turning into demons I dunno, but I think I'd have a better idea if I bother to go find out what happens if they touch you, unless someone answers that question when I return to our board. Need sleeps :V

It is pretty amazing though that everyone is so enthused by this game. But I do think we need to be a bit more polite when we disagree with our other theorists--there is considerably less of us since the .10 update I've noticed from ago.

>>1665
Nevermind what I said. I decided to check this out myself before going to bed and I think this is very significant.

The large demons in the rust school chase don't do anything. Like, at all. None of them can do anything but get in your way and be annoying. I think they're following you not like a "chase" but... it struck me as a kind of pied piper thing. This is only an impression, but I'll state it anyway--I think the reason the sabi kaibutsu's turn into the demons is because there's no need for them to attack you--since you are already them. However I'm not sure what to take from the painful noise they make when they shift. I like to think its the disease inside them coming to the surface. As you are becoming Rust (more or less) to go kill Smile, the disease inside the kaibutsu breaks through the surface. That or its supposed to be scary, although another kaibutsu laugh would probably suffice off that logic.

Still, for everyone elses consideration, bear that in mind--The new chase, those demons--they don't do anything but follow you!

>>1661

Ah, I forgot to point out vines could move since plants are known to do so through tropisms. That's why I said a flower wouldn't be a good eye replacement. At least as far as I know, plants don't have a way to see

This is one point that I always take in consideration. For example, Oreko's Ghost appears in the area where you get the Machine effect, so it is quite plausible to say they are somehow connected. Same goes for the Cleaners and the testing facility. Also, I can't guarantee it, but I am quite sure there isn't an easy way to get from the underwater area to either the past plant area or the hotel/Sugar Hole. In fact, the only way I can remember is through the labyrinths, then the gallery, up through the elevator, and across the whole Apartments area until you reach the hotel.

Ah, my bad then. I'm accustomed to thinking the same thing happens in all endings, and we just get to see more of it on the 2nd and true ones. Though yes, if we think of them as having different outcomes, then the cleaner doesn't seem to harm Sabitsuki at all. I just don't really know if they do have a different outcome, since we see the same scene with her getting carried away by the Cleaner

Do you mind telling us what filenames confirm that? I'd be very intereseted in a definitive confirmation to that bit, since I wasn't able to find something that confirmed it when I first posted it

Yeah, your links work. I signed off of my account just to chekc if unregistered users could see them and they can, too. I don't really have anything to point out there, we can see those same machine legs in all those 3 drawings, and that's a fact. But you might not know that these, along with the whole hell-tech areas (the orange, evil-looking machines) are inspired, or rather taken right out of, another person's drawings. I wouldn't rule out the Machine effect being a homage to this, much like the Arm effect is a homage to Monoko

Yes, it's clear she has a special part in the story. But do note, the Friendship effect can also go the opposite way, and lead you to killing her off. I don't really know what to make of this yet, as I only discovered the day I mentioned it on a previous post

It's not as farfetched at all. I mean, ok, one might not be able to extract anything concrete from that area, but at the same time you made a very good observation when you associated those red bubbling geysers to the only other thing in this game that releases bubbles

I have nothing good on this, but to me those white things always looked like nails and broken pieces of something/shrapnel. Can't really make much out of it though

>>1665

I understand where you're coming from, but, as I've said before, as straightforward and blunt as my posts may be, I don't think they can be mistaken for anything other than an attempt at helping refine the other person's theory

I do this following a "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", as I would rather someone told me what they think is wrong with one of my theories bluntly, as opposed to a roundabout way that such unfamiliarity between the 2 of us may impose

Having said that, you can see that I don't always do this. Night's post is a good example. He said the theory was a bit farfetched, so I only pointed out something he probably didn't know, and left it at that. So while I do try my best to point out flaws in theories which, at least as I perceive it, have been posted not only to expose said theory but also to get input in case there is room for improvement, I do no such thing to theories which people post simply for fun

The "fetus", when on the ground, doesn't really look like anything in particular. It does look a bit more like a fetus in the falling animation. Still, if I had to give a reason why it was a fetus, I'd say it's because the girl looks unmistakably pregnant (at least according to my point of view)

I think you can, partly at least, stop worrying about that thing at the end of the Rust corridors being Sabitsuki, or otherwise something good. The map name for that room is Demon, so I highly doubt they aren't saying that is the source of the corruption around it. Even without knowing that, it was kind of a given, since the corruption gets worse and worse as you approach that room

As far as demons go, I always thought they had big round mouths for faces. And I am sorry for saying they were entities and not specifying; I do think they're entities, but not real ones like the Kaibutsus or Sabitsuki. I think of them not as real characters, but as agents of Rust's erosion, both mental and physical

Also, to shine some light on that. I know I talked about how they did nothing on a previous post, but those Rust Corrupted School demons are supposed to do something. Their coding is different from other demons, in that a single touch would kill Sabitsuki, instead of needing 15 demons (thus explaining their huge size). The only thing that causes them not to do anything is a bug

You see, in all demons, there is a condition that gets checked before they corrupt you, which is whether or not you have the menu commands enabled. Why, I do not know, as I can't remember a situation where the demons and a lack of menu capabilities would conflict with each other. The fact is, this piece of code is still present in the Rust chase sequence's demons, and as we all know well, we can't access the menu in this part, so they do nothing. I would be willing to bet anything that this will be fixed in a later version, as lol wouldn't change these demons to instantly kill you if he hadn't intended for them to harm you in the first place

This fits incredibly well with my theory, though. Seeing as the Corrupted School Event was a temporary Rust takeover, we experience greatly amplified happenings during this event exactly BECAUSE Rust is in control at this moment

>>1667
Its a bug?! Oh god that's hilarious D: here I was thinking I stumbled across something but it was just a stupid bug.

i'd like to say i was never one to think that sabitsuki and rust are separate characters. my theories about this are grounded in the three headed sperm, which seems to imply three stages of sabitsuki's existence. or three simultaneously existing egos of sabitsuki inextricably intertwined. or something, i'll work on it. interesting to note the three headed sperm is present in the last room of the rust hallway before you clobber the other sabitsuki.

the appearance sabitsuki takes when she's one more red demon away from her head exploding is actually pretty different from that of the sabitsuki she attacks. a side by side comparison: regular sabitsuki's flesh melts away and she can't stand up straight. idle sabitsuki appears to be bleeding only from the forehead, perhaps the mouth. while both seem to have horns, idle sabitsuki's are more pronounced than ever. it's as though they have emerged from her forehead independently of any sort of decay, with some resultant bleeding. regular sabitsuki's horns are small and look more like they became exposed simply because the flesh around them started peeling away. what does this mean? i believe that idle sabitsuki is the demon undergoing a critical transformation. sabitsuki makes her way to the demon to stop the transformation before it succeeds. an army of red minions is dispatched to wear sabitsuki down before she can get there. the third sabitsuki is the one that smiles and kills things, but she is not present in this scene. all three are the same person in a weird trinitarian sort of way, and the inner struggle manifests itself in multiple instances of sabitsuki fighting each other.

>>1667
the cardiac monitor in the hospital maze takes you to underwater world, which is oreko's domain. this might be a different hospital, but if locations are important it must mean something. it's also plausible to say that oreko built the machine effect because she is often working on the machine in her house. this suddenly brings up another thought. the monochrome girl has MACHINE LEGS and lives by the BEACH composed of a chipset called "UMI" which google translates to "SEA" ?????

the chipset containing both the school balcony and the more appropriately proportioned ending balcony is called "学校," which means "school." i suppose that items can be thrown into whatever chipset is most convenient, but it just kind of bolsters the similarities between the two balconies. all that's different is the size, which was ostensibly altered to keep the large smile sprite from looking like king kong compared to the teeny school building.

no i didn't know what lol's drawings may have been inspired by. can you show me or explain it so i can officially discount the significance of the prosthesis

killing oreko off is counterproductive (you can't get the orange menu type that way), so i imagine that you are supposed to remember your friendship with her. the same goes for smile; not hitting him is counterproductive (can't get the smile menu type unless you hit him), so you are supposed to recall feeling aggression toward him. experiencing everything the way that you are supposed to is what allows you to 100% the game. but both destructive urges and humane restraint can hobble your progress

>>1665
i agree with anon here
i'm one of those people who theorizes for the fun of it and i will probably come up with a theory that suits my tastes even if i don't think it's real (it will accommodate all existing clues though). i'm currently working on a backstory for smile and the school

the fetus? i never really thought of it as anything more than an assortment of organs. but since neither confirming nor denying it would affect my theory, i just went with what guy was saying. personally i prefer to think that sabitsuki is standing in for the "fetus" even if size proportions are not 100% accurate.

Last edited 11/07/25(Mon)14:47.

>>1668

Yeah, I also took into account that it might be intentional in one of my previous posts. Glad that it works both ways though

>>1670

I'm guessing those 3-headed things are the final stage of the stuff that's growing as you advance. Also, you can see them here http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=15091010 . They're right behind Sabitsuki, and are the 3 Kaibutsus

As far as Sabitsuki's corruption goes, I'd sooner think as she gets corrupted, a demon gradually grows inside her. The final step results in a messy crack, and that increase in pressure is what makes me believe this to be the case. Her inner demon, in more ways than one

But I do believe Oreko is related to hospitals in some ways. I just don't know if, going by your hypothesis, she'd be involved in helping Sabitsuki get new legs

Yeah, the monochrome world here is so weird. I only knew what to make of it after seeing the drawings I talked about in the last post

I see, I didn't know that. Well, don't get me wrong man, I posted a long-ass post about why I thought she went to the school's rooftop in the ending, and I pretty much take that as fact on every theory I elaborated. But the map name itself just says "Outside", so I never had something to actually support it other than observations

The artist's name is asgr. He/she apparently also has a Pixiv account but I could not find it. However, going to Gelbooru and searching for asgr will return a number of drawings. Here are some that might better illustrate what I was talking about in the last post

http://safebooru.org//images/241/ef462e5b62986d0f78f51629c12b3dc33a4724d3.jpg
http://img2.gelbooru.com//images/346/72432672ed29b7a1e74c83e7e764888fe0ebf155.jpg

I wasn't just talking about his drawings, the hell-tech area has some clear connections to this style. Someone discussed it in another thread already though, I never would have known about this by myself

Also, there's no reason to take away what possible importance amputation might have. All I meant was that the machine effect probably is more related to the whole hell-tech theme than to mechanical prosthetics as a result of amputation

Menu types are optional, though. Nothing is really gained by having them, nothing about the dream world or the ending changes. They might, however, only be attainable by re-enacting what happened in Sabitsuki's past, but even then it's just a wild guess

Quite frankly, I did think it was an organ as well. It being a fetus or not doesn't really change anything for me either, but when you talked about giving birth and such I checked it again and saw that bloated belly. That's the only real reason I thought it was a fetus

Last edited 11/07/25(Mon)22:22.

>>1671
i'm having trouble keeping track of all the things we talk about

>>sperm drawing

i wasn't sure if those were the three sabitsuki sperm specifically, think they're just regular sperm (as far as sperm with mouths and eyes can be considered regular)

>>demon

a demon growing inside her, eh? sounding more like heather by the minute. and it will crack her skull open to escape? it makes some sense, but seems kind of redundant given the graphic birth scene. and...sabitsuki manages to stop it from escaping long enough to make it to the school roof, but is still under an evil influence? but then the maid kills her. ordinarily you don't kill the host unless the experiment failed. and unless there really are three separate egos, sabitsuki wouldn't cackle evilly without the demon's influence. could be she trapped it inside her and did suicide by cleaner. but if she was under the demon's influence, she would be acting in the demon's interest and stay alive. good idea, could work with some tinkering, but i'll probably stand by mine.
i'm seeing the skull cracking as symbolic of her mental battle for control. it causes a SPLITTING HEADACHE severe enough to kick her out of flow. and unlike all her bodily trauma, a headache is something she could actually retain when she finally wakes up to a blood free room. i admit that ending annoys me because it almost negates half the things we saw, but i've always believed that there is overlap between dreams and hell. or astro-projection or something. and if sabitsuki actually has more than one soul in her body, astro-projection accommodates that well.

>>oreko

i feel that oreko giving sabitsuki new legs in the real world is too far fetched. i can't even get a feel for who she represents from sabitsuki's life. i was noticing that the shiny apartments place was near the ocean, but that's it

>>school rooftop

maybe lol needed to differentiate between the two rooftop scenes and named the latter "outside" because it's the only scene that takes place outside sabitsuki's room

>>drawings

can't see those drawings due to hotlinking but i searched like you said and yeah i see what you mean. it's a pretty blatant rip and i wonder if these two artists are affiliated or have spoken to each other. i can say that lol at least had several favorites of stuff like this on pixiv. given that .flow is already a fangame, it's hard to say how far is too far when it comes to referencing other work. typically it's only stuff from yume nikki though

>>amputation

but if amputation is a big deal to sabitsuki, i find it unlikely that her thoughts so often turning to limb replacement has nothing to do with it. that's a pretty huge coincidence. also one of the things i liked about .flow was that even though the effects were mostly useless, they were clues. so by collecting them you're kind of being a detective. in yume nikki i'm pretty sure they're mostly "wow look what i can do." i'd be disappointed to learn they are just as pointless in .flow

>>menu types

that's exactly what i meant. sabitsuki gets them for experiencing things a certain way. generally in games, getting stuff tells you that you're doing something right

>>fetus

we agree that the girl's belly is bloated and explodes into a pile of organs. and whether or not any of the detailed organs is a fetus, it's still perfectly reasonable to guess that she was pregnant. one could even suggest she gave birth the alien face hugger way.

Last edited 11/07/25(Mon)21:29.

>>1674

Oh god, sorry hello, I've said stuff that was completely ambiguous that last post. When I talked about what I thought happened when the demons fully corrupted her, I meant it only in her dream world. As I said to anon before, I think those demons aren't real entities, and exist only inside her head

About those 3-headed things, I thought they were Kaibutsus before I saw that pic as well. I only wasn't certain about the 3rd one because we couldn't see the iconic pigtailed-one, since it was obscured by the other 2. But you can see in the game graphic that the two visible heads have the same haircuts as the other 2 Kaibutsus

I do have a place for Oreko in my theory but it wouldn't fit on yours, since we're going on different directions. The only thing I can tell you is to look for the hell-tech areas for associations you can make, as I'm sure Oreko working on that huge hell-tech machine is her most defining action at this moment

His naming of map names fluctuates between the "very informative" and the "utterly irrelevant", anyway. And it being called Outside wasn't something that refuted the school rooftop theory, it just didn't help either

I've uploaded two of the pics that better illustrate it, one on my last post and one in this, just so others can see it too if they care about this subject. And I don't think the whole hell-tech area is just a homage. I think lol has incorporated elements of this dystopian sci-fi world in .flow. The machine effect and "machine-girls", so to speak, are in a very limited area though, so I feel like they're more like a homage, and not really related to the rest of the story, much like the Arm effect

i'd like to think most effects have a reason to exist too, but realistically, a few of them just seem way too random, in my point of view at least

Either way, she was either pregnant or had a huge stomach for some reason. Which wouldn't really make much sense, so I'd rather just stick with pregnant for the moment

>>1676

>>demon

talking about an inner demon inevitably gets pretty vague and confusing

>>sperm

ok i took another look and definitely see that the three sperm in that drawing are the kaibutsu. it was just hard to tell with all the hatching lines. actually fits well into a theory i was working on. but to clarify, we're only talking about the drawing right? i took another look at the three-headed sperm to be sure, and i still think all three have sabitsuki's bedhead haircut.

>>oreko

quick question, do people call them hell-tech because of their association with the industrial maze, which is .flow's answer to yume nikki's red labyrinth, commonly referred to as hell? or is it another random reason? because hell is another place in .flow entirely. the red firey place (hellish) as opposed to the orange industrial (oreko ish) place. though for some strange reason, the hell area is always accessible through water based areas connected to oreko

>>outside

just offering a possible reason for the name. file naming is tedious sometimes

>>homage

yume nikki stuff is always an obvious shout-out. but we're not familiar with asgr's level of popularity among people who were following the development of .flow. even if they've never heard of him, it could just be lol's subtle shout-out to his favorite artist. i came away feeling like it was important, but i'll reevaluate it

>>effects

they all feel vaguely meaningful, ranging from sabitsuki's personal interests to yume nikki references to plot relevant memories. maybe i don't get that feeling from yume nikk because there was no plot? it's hard to say

>>pregnant

and really all the sperm everywhere supports this anyway

>>1677

You might be right about that. The middle one has horns anyway, and that's not something you see on the pigtail Kaibutsu

I think I'm the only one who calls it hell-tech. I just gave it that name because of how unsettling the machines look. To me they were more reminiscent of demons than machines, so hell-tech. But yes, it's what's known as industrial maze, though to be honest with you I never did understand where it got that name, either. you can also access hell through the prison, and I don't think that area is particularly attached to Oreko

Well, there are some effects which don't seem to have much connection with anything. Like Slime, or Psychedelic. Could be just me, though

>>1679
i forgot to mention this while we were still on the topic of amputation. it's unrelated, but kind of coincidental. i read that in certain parts of africa, albinos are hunted due to a popular superstition that there is magic in their bodies. witch doctors and black market traders (or even people who just need money) will break into the home of an albino and cut his or her limbs off either to keep for rituals or to sell for a very high price. it's the same principal as a lucky rabbit's foot, but with people

>>sperm

it'd also be weird for kaibutsu sperm to be in what we're currently calling sabitsuki's mother's womb

>>hell-tech

i thought i heard a lot of people call it that. and industrial maze is probably a name someone slapped on the wiki and people went with it. might be a good time to look at map and chipset names

>>prison

unless the two kanji form something completely different, it's called "water prison." it goes underwater>cardboard maze>dark maze with slowed underwater bgm>art gallery (chipset name for both these places translates to "harbour loop" ???)>water prison>hell>starry pier, which can lead back to underwater via stairs, back to a room in hell via fisherman, or to oreko and the machine via door. basically i'm seeing water everywhere

>>effects

psychedelic could fall under personal interests i suppose. slime speaks to all the sewers she seems to remember. stuff like that

>>1680

Whoa, hold on there. First, I don't think they're sperm, and second, that area is not a womb. The area's name is Body, and the actual Uterus map doesn't have any kind of sperm in there

I know it's called water prison, I did the same translation in an earlier post. But associating it with Oreko means you associate everything remotely connected to water to Oreko, and that seems to be a bit too much. I mean, Oreko isn't there, there's no hell-tech anywhere, and the only water is a smudgy, brown liquid. Doesn't sound like an Oreko-y place to me

Some other people might have called it hell-tech as well, but it's most likely they did so the same way you did up until now. Sure, but unless I'm wrong the chipset file only says Orange

Well, yes, but where's the meaningfulness in that? Like you said, you didn't feel like that when you played YN. However, coming up with associations like those for YN's effects isn't all that hard, either, but I'm sure you'd still feel it was meaningless anyway

Last edited 11/07/27(Wed)13:56.

>>1694

>>sperm

uh sorry, what do you think they are?
i kind of use "body" and "womb" interchangeably

>>everything else

i was just making some vague suggestions to provoke discussion. food for thought, you know. i don't necessarily believe all of it

what should we talk about next

>>1695

Quite frankly, no idea. One conclusion I arrived at (not that it was hard getting there) is that they're indicators of an advanced state of corruption, since we only see them in areas where there's significant demon presence

On the other hand, why do you think they're sperm? Besides the obvious physical similarity, of course

Oh, I see. I'll keep that in mind. And about Hell, one thing that could connect it to Oreko (which I forgot) is the weird lamp-men, like that fisherman sitting next to the entrance to the smaller hell. They seem to be in every hell, and those lamps are seen in the background of the Machine effect map as well. So I guess, even if the prison isn't a very Oreko-like place, Hell might just be

Have you covered all of the core points of your theory? If not, we can discuss the rest, otherwise, maybe we could discuss what Smile and his sister's place in your theory is? I'm guessing you came up with something interesting to account for the similarity between him and Sabitsuki

Last edited 11/07/27(Wed)15:50.

>>1696

>>sperm

really only the physical similarity and the fact that theories calling them sperm make a lot of sense to me

>>hell

i guess the point that i was trying to make was that all those areas kind of go in a giant circle with only a couple unrelated detours (i'd call monochrome beach a related detour, given the sea and the cyborg)
is it just me or does that fisherman appear to have a mermaid tail? he could just have weirdly shaped legs, but i thought it was a tail at first. a fish fishing hmm
the only other thing is that the trim going across the walls of the cardboard maze are also in the gallery. but i tend to associate the maze more with the school anyway. the scrawlings look like bathroom wall gossip

>>theory

it's more like a fanciful backstory incorporating some of the things we've discussed here, written more to tailor the narrative into something i like than to deduce lol's actual intentions. it reads like fanfic and people can take it or leave it

i had sabitsuki and smile written as unrelated, assuming the similar haircut was just laziness on lol's part. but it won't be hard to work their relation in for people who think otherwise

>>1697

I see. Well, to be honest with you, if they ARE supposed to be spermatozoa then I have no idea what they're doing so far away from, shall we say, their "designated" areas

Quite frankly, I just see them the same way I see stickmen. Also, I've sneaked a pick through the charset files and it doesn't seem like he has a fin

Haha! Poor lol, he did a whole different laugh for Smile, along with a voice track! I can understand that you think Smile's hair is just another bedhead and not meant to look exactly like Sabitsuki's, but be gentle on lol!

I won't lie, I thought you had Smile accounted for somewhere in your demon theory, but that's ok. No need to think up something different forcibly, it's your theory and what matters is you're happy with it

Last edited 11/07/27(Wed)17:27.

>>1701

>>sperm

well...what is the mouth area supposed to be
much of it belongs to a chipset called "smile" yet it's still in the body
everything officially makes no sense (or does it)

>>fin

not important anyway

>>hair

don't get me wrong i noticed the laugh and the scambled voice. i guess what i meant was...his hair is a less important detail than those things, and therefore had less effort put into it. but it might also be intentional who knows let's assume it is for a while

>>theory

smile was accounted for in my theory. most of it hinged on him actually. i just didn't think he was related to sabitsuki. but it would still work if he was so why not

>>1702

Well, he's called Smile, but that's a fan-name. Plus, no reason to rule out his involvement in the corruption, or a possible connection he might have to it

Oh, even better then. No, I misunderstood, I thought you meant they weren't related to one another at all, not just that they weren't related by blood

Hey guys, I just finished the game and thought of this.

What if the hospital Saibitsuki and the other children were put in wasn't a regular hospital, but a mental hospital?

This suddenly puts the events of the game into a very interesting perspective. The experiments done on the children weren't developing/making a cure for a pathogen, but to turn them into efficient, cold-blooded killers. The back room of the hospital could represent physical torture done on the kids. The flower island could be psychoactive herbs given to the kids as a means to control them. The Kaibutsu are "successful" products of this process. Think about it - all of their faces are missing. What is the part of the human body that shows emotion, allows communication, and proves humanity? The face. Their lack of one shows that they have completely lost their humanity and have become tools of death. The children who couldn't handle the process probably died from stress or were accidentally killed by the staff when they went too far.

Sabitsuki has locked herself in her room because she feels her programming kicking in, but has enough of herself left to want to avoid hurting others. Rust is a split personality created by the programming who is trying to replace the original. The whole game is a reflection of Sabi's struggle to resist and keep herself mentally human.

>>1703
sorry i haven't been active guy
been thinking about the backstory, but it's best to let it sit for a while. what sounds good on tuesday might sound completely ridiculous by friday, know what i mean
also still have no idea where to fit plant world. maybe we can talk about that some more

>>smile

his charset files are named "smile" and "smile2"

>>1738
add this to the list of plausible interpretations i think. i happen to agree with you on the hospital trying to create monsters, but aside from that it's pretty different

it's interesting equating facelessness to inhumanity, which is probably accurate to most interpretations of the kaibutsu. but the face being where all the senses are, i can't see kaibutsu as being effective killers. if you meant they only appear figuratively faceless in sabitsuki's visions (but appear fairly normal in reality), then this still makes sense

if you really believe this theory, could you elaborate a bit

Last edited 11/07/30(Sat)14:37.

>>1703

>Plus, no reason to rule out his involvement in the corruption, or a possible connection he might have to it

v0.15: You kill him as Rust

>>1740
i tend to think that while the first chase is reminiscent of an actual event from sabitsuki's past, the rust chase becomes more of a revenge fantasy

ok i think i have something on plant world. together with snow world and the two ghost gardens, i think it represents burial. in this scenario, the hospital is actually a human testing facility. this is written to correspond with my theory so bear with me

let's go to the ghost garden first. here we find a lot of white flowers and a ghost with a watering can. i've come to think of this place as representing a cemetery, probably owned by the hospital (all the dead patients are either kidnapped or orphaned so the hospital is responsible for burying them). perhaps sabitsuki often visited a grave during her convalescent childhood, trimming and watering the flowers around it to keep it looking nice. could be her mother's grave, or some random kid who died at the hospital. we'll assume it belongs to the ghost girl idling near it

let's skip over to snow world. there we find young(?) sabitsuki wandering around. we also find a dress, seen by some as funeral attire due to the color and the net veil. since a child wouldn't wear an outfit like that, let's say the effect is sabitsuki's way of mourning or retroactively attending the funeral (realistically there would be no funeral anyway). interacting with a flower like the ones populating the ghost garden will cause the entire place to become overgrown with weeds. not only that, but much is changed and (from what i can tell), young sabitsuki is no longer there. i think that this represents the passage of time. perhaps sabitsuki stopped visiting the grave upon her release from the hospital and the cemetery gradually deteriorated into a giant weedpatch. the smokestack blocking the tunnel is now gone

sounds like i'm telling a story now. sabitsuki revisits the cemetery for the first time in years. she spots the now open tunnel. upon entering it, weeds lead her far underground. she realizes this is a large tomb. it is warm enough down here for an unusual variety of plants to grow. there are mounds of yet unmelted snow on the floor; someone must have been here very recently to track them in. exploring further, she finds that these catacombs lead back to the hospital and are crawling with patients who themselves have been overtaken by the strange weeds. this is a mass grave dug by the hospital to both accommodate and hide the overflow of patients who died during experimentation. their bodies are being reclaimed by the earth. at the center she finds the half-dead gardener who taught her how to care for the grave back when she was a child (he/she appears early in the flowbeet chronology). she can't tell by looking whether he/she was associated with this carnage or stumbled upon it by mistake
patients are mysteriously absent from a section of the grave inhabited by large pink plants that appear to have teeth and pincers. were these were cultivated to eat human flesh

the above paragraph sort of fluctuates between sabitsuki's visions and her actual memories, but whatever. this got more specific than i intended. i don't expect that all my details are spot on they're just for fun

>>1739

You're right. Homicidal feelings don't necessarily equal effectiveness at killing. The Rust ending serves to prove this.

Perhaps the doctors intended to train the Kaibutsu to become more efficient in combat, but the breaking process wound up making them mindless and thus uneffective as soldiers. As a result, all of the test subjects were eliminated and the whole thing was covered up. I think that Sabitsuki's process wasn't quite finished, and because of that she was able to escape.

Perhaps they were kamikaze sleeper agents, with the berserk personality activating at a specific stimulus/code word. They'd probably be better in surprise one-on-one situations where the target doesn't have a weapon. However, that's not a very practical way to assassinate somebody, and so the facility terminated the program and killed off all the test subjects.

>>1743

I always thought of the snow area as representing cremation, particularly due to the association with funeral clothes and lillies. The chimneys could be coming from an underground crematorium, and the "snow" might not actually be snow, but ashes. It makes me think of that PBF comic where the astronaut who burns up in the atmospher becomes the first "snowflake" of winter.

>>1747
yeah i'm dumb why wouldn't they just burn the bodies haha. that would certainly explain the smokestacks so thank you. hard to say whether there are more of fewer of them in the "future" because the map shrinks. but sabitsuki's scarf implies that at least some of it is actual snow

and the hospital can lie and tell sabitsuki "yeah she's buried right here" when really she's in the mass grave with everyone else. i suppose some of the bodies could be stored there for further examination before cremation. the ones that have been there longer are covered with weeds

on a semi-related note, i still haven't the slightest what to make of oreko. but the two slabs in the ghost garden leading to underwater world look a lot like japanese headstones, don't they. this and the cardiac monitor leading from the hospital maze to underwater world imply she could have something to do with the dead friend. also finding her in a test tube. still can't make heads or tails of the underwater thing though

>>1746
sure that works

>>1738

You'd have to see though, the mind alone isn't enough to cause people to spontaneously bleed/receive grievous wounds. Even if it was self-inflicted, that would make them a massive failure as a weapon

I think it's safe to admit they're doing "things" to those children, which is in fact what most people seem to believe; we've been calling it testing facility pretty much since 0.10 came out. But a mental hospital alone is probably not enough to explain what we see there

>>1739

By all means hello, this is a slow board. You're already posting quite a lot by this board's standards

I know, and there are a load of events related to him called Smile as well. But it isn't official in any way. In fact, the only thing close to official is lol's drawing, in which he was called oniisan

>>1740

Yes, but it still doesn't discount that possibility. He could have been someone who accidentally, or just rashly, unleashed the Kaibutsu virus, for example

Don't take me the wrong way; I don't believe that this is the case, or even that the Kaibutsu condition is contagious at all. It's meant only to illustrate how he could be related to it and still end up in that situation

>>1743

That anon already got the chimneys bit better than I ever could, but I'd like to know what's your take on something through your point of view

During the Rust chapter the Gardener is dead. I mean, even if you didn't kill him, he'll be dead as soon as Sabitsuki becomes Rust. Got anything on why it happens, according to your theory?

>>1747

Very good one there anon. Nothing to point out at all

>>1749

I wish I could help you with Oreko mate. I've thought about it before, and I can't find a way to connect her to your demonic viewpoint. And the way she fits in my theory would most certainly be incompatible with yours

If anything, then you might want to consider something, if you haven't done so already. Sabitsuki's and Oreko's friendship may not be real. It may be perceived like a friendly relationship only by Sabitsuki herself. I mean, this isn't the way my theory acconuts for Oreko, but maybe it'll fit better with yours? Since she's working on a hell-tech machine, and hell-tech locations are heavily corrupted (lots of Kaibutsus, and later demons), so it's plausible to link her with the events surrounding your theory

Last edited 11/07/31(Sun)15:45.

additional notes on plant stuff
-the plant-grafted patient who looks like sabitsuki always hangs around the door that leads back to the hospital
-maybe "gardener" is wrong; maybe he was the dead friend (hair's a little different from the ghost though)
-really the girl from the intro screen is a better candidate for the dead friend since her sprite was eventually used for the ghost
-snow world is entered from an overgrown apartment very similar to sabitsuki's (with a white flower too) so it might have belonged to the dead friend
-the flowbeet chronology shows little sabitsuki after a parade of dead kids, so maybe she was actually tending to a lot of graves. i mean the other test subjects had to be dying all around her as she grew. this placement could even mark the first time she was able to walk around outside

>>1754

>>mental hospital

i think he means they tortured the kids or did any manner of things we have already talked about, but with a different end goal

>>you post too much

yeah well

>>smile

i know smile isn't exactly his name, it just refers collectively to recently implemented smiling things in the game (as in, not to the mouths in red eye world it would seem)

>>onii-san

weren't we discounting the relevance of lol's drawings just the other day. anyway that name doesn't tell us much; it's most likely in relation to sister (whose name is also taken from a drawing). regardless, sabitsuki just seems rather preoccupied by the guy's changes in expression but more specifically his mouth given that it's one of the empty boxes

>>gardener

wait
is he always dead during the rust chapter? like no 50/50 chance of seeing him alive written into the game? i wrote "half-dead" because of that lolpun

>>oreko

i keep coming back to the same conclusion that she is something like an imaginary friend. everything about her is just so far-fetched what with living underwater and building crazy machines. it's like something a child would imagine. the only thing to conflict with this is that oreko appears at the very end of the flowbeet chronology. totally throws me off

>>1755

Ah, a brainwashing/mental reprogramming facility? I see, I see

Don't get me wrong, I meant no offense when I said you posted a lot. Hell, it'd be pretty damned hard to say that without implying I was exactly the same. I simply meant you were quite active, and I meant it in a good way

I don't think I've ever discounted the importance of lol's drawings. We got Cleaner's name from there, as well as proof that she's a human wearing a gas mask and not a robot. I mean, he might take some artistic freedoms but his drawings are hardly something we can ignore

Always. The very switch that indicates you're in the Rust chapter is what's checked. If it's on, he'll be dead

I never took her presence in the underwater world as literal. My conclusions on that are pretty easy to arrive at, but they probably wouldn't help your theory. I'd just suggest that maybe you shouldn't take the whole underwater theme as an accurate image of the place Oreko inhabited

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)00:07.

I don't like the idea of Sabi being in a facility of any kind.

It's a dream world, it's not unlikely that the reason everything in the hospitals is so messed up is because from her point of view, it was. She was young when she was there, and she was likely kept in one area with people with similar- or more likely worse- conditions.

The butcher's shop you go through to get to the hospital? That could be one of many things, maybe an autopsy center, and she just assumed they were actually killing the dead over there (before they die, of course)

Things get blown drastically out of proportion in dreams, I don't see why that'd be different here.

>>1756
i know what you meant i was joking

>>lol's drawings

i was mostly pointing out the irony. but... if lol only drew sabitsuki with a prosthesis because he likes machine limbs OR drew sister with a bloody knife because he has a thing for yandere girls...then how can we tell which drawings contain plot relevant information? it's just something to check up on

>>gardener's always dead in the rust chapter

considering the number of things that are different in the rust chapter, i think they all should be explained by a single theory about what it means to become rust. you know, instead of answering this one question by itself

>>oreko

it's simple enough to see her underwater home as an exaggeration of what sabitsuki seems to remember. but the diving helmet... we never see her without it, implying sabitsuki never saw her without it. that part is weird

but this is a more detailed description of the impression i get from oreko. let's say you have a child whose friend or relative or pet died, but the child is too young to grasp the concept of death. an adult tells the child some crazy story about where the dead thing went. like flushing a fish down the toilet sends it back to the ocean to be with other fish. can't think of a great example at the moment

this isn't a theory, but just a silly idea to get us started. let's say oreko was an early test subject (because of her appearance in the test tube) years older than sabitsuki. and she liked to build things but always ran out of room and materials. she eventually found out what was going on and committed suicide by jumping off a bridge into a river. young sabitsuki might grasp death, but a suicide is more questionable. so someone told teeny sabitsuki that oreko went to live underwater where there is plenty of space and lots of stuff to build with. and this idea would later manifest itself in oreko the diver. i don't actually believe any of this ^^^ just trying to start a conversation

guy would it be ok for you to briefly describe what you think oreko is

>>1757

I agree, and it's exactly how I saw things before 0.10 is released. I thought that meathook-filled place was just a morgue, and that Sabitsuki saw it as a place which treated bodies as little more than meat sacs due to some sort of extremely negative experience she could have had with hospitals (I think I talked about that in a previous post)

That's why the True Ending changed our way to process all we see in the game. It confirms two of the wildest things we've seen in this game. One, that Kaibutsus exist, and Sabitsuki is/became one. And two, that there actually are gas mask-wearing maids, who, even more unbelievably, carry with them the chainsaw they were pictured with. Now, even

I know, this doesn't provide validation for everything we see. But both are pretty darned incredible. It's not hard to assume least incredible things are also true

Now, I'm not saying Sabitsuki actually saw a giant girl dying in a peculiar way, as little versions of her dissolved all around. Nor that she walked in a place made of nothing but blue and red dots. But we can see a clear distinction between abstract and real-world areas

The school, the testing facility, the hotel/bar, they're all quite normal, with no surreal elements to them. Then we have the ghost garden, the eye world, the blood and darkness map... we can see they aren't meant to represent a real-world area in any way

Well, all this was just to show why I believe .flow's events can't be seen through such an abstract point of view as, for example, YN's. It's just an opinion, though

>>1758

Sorry mate, didn't see your post before I posted mine

Oh, definitely. I don't find all of his drawings to be plot-related. But as far as names go, what he chooses to name his drawings is something that I always try to keep in mind

That is true. I just pointed it out since you brought up the past's plant area, and seeing as you didn't mention this I didn't think you knew yet. It won't be hard to relate him to the corruption, at any rate

So for you, Oreko is an imaginary/dead friend... It's plausible, no doubt about that

As you know I'm aiming for a "likely" theory. So I tried to incorporate everything I could, and make something out of it; I couldn't say something is likely unless the other parts are taken into account as well. That being said, taking a part of the theory out of the whole may make it sound strange, but it fits quite well when everything is put together

I believe Oreko to be someone responsible for the maintenance of hell-tech machines/areas, and possibly also for overviewing the progress of ongoing projects. I also believe she was Sabitsuki's friend, and it's possible that from a certain point on their friendship was no more (whether or not this "certain point" exists is one of the things I've been trying to clarify before I release the theory)

I know, I know. It sounds weird as all hell, but believe me when I say it's a very satisfying conclusion when presented together with the rest of the theory

>>1757
ditto on what guy said, a gas mask wearing maid didn't cut her legs off with a chainsaw for no reason
the thing is we play .flow thinking it's going to be just like yume nikki where everything is a surrealist adventure through a little girl's nonsensical dreams and most of the imagery has little to no meaning. then the ending comes and you're like wait that was real
and here we are trying to put the pieces together to figure out what happened, because unlike YN, .flow has an implied narrative

>>1761

>>lol's drawings

well if nothing else they help to confirm tiny details that are hard to make out in pixels

>>oreko

i don't necessarily believe oreko is an imaginary friend. she just has the vibe of one and i haven't managed to think of a logical role for her yet

your take sounds fine, thanks for sharing

One thing that I noticed is that after the endgame, you wake up from the bed instead of the computer. How do we know you're really awake at all?

>>1766
well i thought about pointing out that there's a blast of static right before flowbeet starts, perhaps implying that sabitsuki was never asleep but is STILL at her computer

but i figured it's probably just a stylistic thing since there's nothing else to support that conclusion. it's sort of like a callback to the intro

then again, how well do we understand the computer's role in sabitsuki's visions

>>1762

Yes, those details meant a lot when the Cleaner drawing first appeared. If not for that we might never have had any proof at all (like how people don't really know for sure what it is that Toriningen have on their faces)

>>1766

Very good observation. You should also take into account that the game starts with intermittent static, as we see Sabitsuki in a flickering screen. As soon as we press Z it turns into a continuous static noise, and we see the outlines of a girl with long black hair

All in all, maybe we should be asking ourselves if Sabitsuki was ever awake before she got out of her bed during the true ending

Last edited 11/08/02(Tue)19:01.

I noticed while playing just now, i was just messing around in the corrupted hospital on the floor with all the kids heads and dead kids etc etc

some sick calling inside me drove me to pipe all the living kids heads in, and all of them went down in one hit, but instead of fading they just lie down like the rest of the kids.
apart from one WHITE HAIRED GIRL who i hit 3 times but wouldnt go down, who i then walked away from to kill the remaining kids.

after killing them i went back to check on the white haired girl, who was actually dead now, and as i approached there was a kaibutsu giggle, so i was like shit theres a kaibutsu in here o_o

but there never was, which leads me to think the violence of sabitsuki (the player, whatever) shows that she is slowly becoming rusted/kaibutsu

dunno if anyone else has pointed this out but hey, i have done now so yeah

>>1779
yeah there's one apparently white-haired girl at the very end of the hall who never dies, though i didn't know she died when you went off screen???

but a variety of giggles, both the kaibutsu and smile variety, play regardless of what you do in the room

>>1773
do you also find that static and feedback sounds are present in a lot of the music or sfx, such as slamming doors and the parade elevator

>>1780
Ah, well maybe its something you should try to be sure O:

I also noticed those poles seemed to have more blood in them in the area before the elevator once i'd killed them, or is that just me?

>>1779

The kids are the Kaibutsus. If you check the charset files you'll see all Kaibutsus have a corresponding child model in there

You can hear 2 different Kaibutsu cackles in there, one higher-pitched than the other. This isn't caused by anything you do in there, it just happens

About the invincible child, it's most certainly a bug. You see, every one of those have a specific flag to tell the game they're dead (313,314,315...). That child in particular activates flag 315 but checks flag 314 to see if it died. If you kill the grey-haired child below the door, which activates flag 314, then the invincible child will die as well

>>1780

Yes, at the very least I can think of the entrance to the FC world and trying to get into the the bloody whole in the testing facility before the rust chapter. It's significant enough to be taken into account, I think

>>1781

The poles stay the same, there aren't any events associated with them

>>1782

something to note is that the kids in the parade hallway don't run from your pipe while the patients down(up?)stairs do

>>hospital kids are kaibutsu

but there are four sets of non-black haired kids (not counting the sabitsuki one) and the fourth appears to have a bun in her hair so who's she supposed to be

>>cackles

i heard at least four different vocalizations in that room. i tried to find them in the sound folder but a lot of them weren't in there???
-ordinary giggle from a single kaibutsu
-echoed giggle from what sounds like multiple kaibutsu
-a quieter kaibutsu giggle i don't think i've heard elsewhere
-what sounds like smile's voice; it goes chuckle-whisper-chuckle (might not be deep enough to be his voice but i think he's the only character who talks)
-thought i heard another instance of whispering, but it might have been my imagination

>>static

well the FC world entrance was just in homage to yume nikki but the rest of the game sure. i was trying to point out the stuff that wasn't obvious like the places that cancel your effect with a blast of static to the screen. for example, the music for underwater world got noticeably more static-y from v0.10 to v0.15. the file is still called bgm3 but compare the two

>unrelated but bugging me

in fanart there is usually at least one male kaibutsu but aren't they all supposed to be girls? i mean they all wear skirts just like uniform sabitsuki's. whatever i'll maintain my belief that they are all female

>>1783

That is true. Seeing as he's not seen anywhere else, my hypothesis is that was a Kaibutsu line that didn't make it into adulthood/adolescence. Perhaps because it was even more flawed than the remaining ones

Holy hot dicks from hell, you're spot on. I hadn't even checked the events since I only heard 2, but it seems 4 distinct sound files have an equal chance of playing

These files are lka, smile, wwww and wwww2, all located in the sound folder. Every 10 seconds there's a 10% chance one of these sounds will play, so basically every 10 seconds you have a 2.5% chance of hearing one of these

Yes, the FC world is most likely just a homage, but do notice the entrance is very much like the screen we see at the game's start when it flickers. I'll take your word for it on the underwater BGM mate

The Kaibutsu? Personally I always thought only one of them was female. There isn't really enough detail to check if they're wearing skirts or pants, either

But, even if they are all wearing the same thing it's not that weird if girls had to wear pants as well, considering they're wearing a tie. Now for guys to be wearing a skirt.... O.o

Last edited 11/08/03(Wed)19:53.

>>1786

>>kaibutsu line

line like, a model? as in, there are short-haired, curly-haired, and twin tailed models being mass-produced? i ask because one could draw this conclusion from the multiple instances of each patient walking around. personally i see it as more repetition (not so much for effect as for labor saving). in fact i'm not sold on those patients being the kaibutsu, but it's not implausible. so what exactly did you mean

>>sounds

what is it that speeds/pitches them up when they play in game?

>>bgm

yeah i just think that if he made the effort to increase static in one track then the computer element must be important, at least to that particular place. supports what i said earlier about oreko being connected to digital things (though unfortunately that gets me nowhere theory wise)

>>are the kaibutsu male or female

i'm going to look at this from all angles if i can in order to support my claim

we don't know what kikiyama was going for when he sprited madotsuki because as far as i know he never drew a picture of her. but because of the way her bottom half flares out and away from her legs, especially in the side view, she appears to be wearing a skirt (99.9% of fanart agrees with this). of course all of sabitsuki's sprites are based on this, but we have lol's drawings to tell us that both her regular outfit and her school uniform are in fact skirts (and for reference, the teeny schoolgirl npc's have flared skirts). if we didn't have the drawings, the dress and the witch effect would help us figure it out

so the kaibutsu all appear to have the same skirty bottom half as the protagonist. one could argue that this is because it was easiest to animate a fully mobile character with the only existing fully mobile sprite. but then lol designed a whole new mobile sprite just for smile, one that indisputeably wears pants. i'm trying to imagine what smile might have looked like if lol hadn't done this and i'm seeing smile in a dress basically

then there's the voice. smile's is a lot deeper than the giggles we're used to hearing all the time. i guess this is still subjective since the kaibutsu are less than human, but it stood out to me when i heard him

i got the idea that smile was supposed to be the only significant boy in sabitsuki's memory. i guess whether there is a male kaibutsu or not, there is a lot of emphasis put on his boyness. but i'm inclined to believe that all the kaibutsu are female and if i had any other arguments i don't remember them

>>ties

it's normal for girls' uniforms to include ties these days. oddly though, lol draws sabitsuki in a sailor style uniform, so the tie might be a product of american interpretation. but that's fine with me and i hope the fanartist stick with it

Last edited 11/08/03(Wed)21:54.

>>1787

Yes, sorry about that. I shouldn't have used that term, as that is one of my theory's points

But that is what I meant; line, series, etc. Not that their hair is what matters, at least to me. And not exactly mass-produced, but not at all unique

I can agree with you on that as far as regular kids are concerned. One male model and one female model, both for the school and for the hospital. An anonymous, faceless, generic crowd of kids that are irrelevant individually, and as such it didn't matter if they all shared the same model

As for the little Kaibutsus, though, lol took the trouble to make 4 different models. If he wanted to save himself some work then two models, or even just one, would be enough. Taking this into account, together with there being multiple of each little Kaibutsu instead of just one, is what makes me think there are several Kaibutsus of each type

You don't think those little kids are Kaibutsus? I mean, even if they didn't have similarities with all the regular ones, there are Kaibutsu cackles in their area and they're covered in blood, as opposed to the regular kids, who haven't got a spot of blood on their body (not even the dead ones who are lying on the floor). Also, they are coupled with Little Sabitsuki, which we later find out is a Kaibutsu as well

I don't know everything RPGMaker has to offer, but I'm quite sure nothing is speeding them up. The smile file sounds like a sped-up lka file, so that might be why you think they're modified

I'm not adamant on what I said regarding the gender issue. In fact, it works either way in my point of view. Regardless of their sex what matters to me is that a Kaibutsu is a violent, crazed creature, so I don't mind assuming they're all female if it's relevant to your theory

I didn't know about that. But as for the sailor uniform, it's probably nothing more than artistic freedom once again

Last edited 11/08/03(Wed)22:45.

>>1788

>>kaibutsu line

well not really the hair i just used it as an example since it was the most distinguishing feature. but yeah i get you now. sort of like clones

>>took the trouble to make 4 different models

yes that makes sense. i suppose then the black-haired patients are the ones who didn't clone properly. they look like the black-haired schoolkids, male and female, short hair and long hair. and the brown-haired ones in plant world could be just for variety (although i think the gardener is the only other character with brown hair, correct me if i'm wrong)

this seems like a good place to note that there are only black-haired kids outside the parade hallway, because they are normal. i believe that the hospital runs the high school, so at least some portion of it is populated with kids the hospital created, normal and kaibutsu. and that is what the rusty cages in the school symbolize. them containing monsters within the place. they gave me that vibe from the very beginning. having cages were desks should be… it'd make more sense if the number of open cages corresponded to kaibutsu, but it seems there's always a kaibutsu in the room with an open cage

>>little kids are kaibutsu

i've been on and off about that theory for various reasons i can't remember but it's looking like i'm back on so sure they are the kaibutsu, can't fight good logic

>>sped up sounds

yeah, most of the voice clips in the sound folder are slower so i'm wondering how they got to sounding like they do in the game but it's not a huge issue

>>gender

i am as adamant about this as anybody who really really wants their theory to be true for the sake of making the whole experience more enjoyable to them. i guess. OR just because consensus is better than people assigning genders all willy nilly, so i am simply presenting the evidence. well at one point i wanted to think the bar kaibutsu was male (the skirts thing convinced me that it couldn't be), but look now i don't. i think because smile later filled the vague role i had in mind, of a guy who doesn't withhold violence from girls (not a big theory or anything, just an interesting character to have on the roster)

part of my theory does hinge on them all being female. and it's an important part to me because it's not far from my initial impression. it would still work if two of them were male, but it would lose the cat fight element. also the one most likely to be male, with the short hair, was originally the only one to exist and THAT could damage my theory

if word of god tells us one or more of them is male, i'll go with it. but for now i'm judging by the skirts

>>1789

Yes, cloning is the core bit of my theory

I don't think the black-haired kids have been cloned at all, nor that the Kaibutsus were truly meant to become crazed, homicidal creatures. My belief is that the black-haired ones are regular children, who are there to receive a treatment of some sort. This "treatment" might be the very reason why Kaibutsus are being created in the first place

This, because we see those same kids (along with Little Sabitsuki) in a plant-grafted state when we go further inside. The remaining Kaibutsus, however, remain untreated. This is why I believe Sabitsuki was able to outlast them, and was still sane by the time they were reaching the final stages of their deterioration. Why was she chosen to receive the treatment as well? My guess is Oreko's the cause. Still just a guess, though

I agree with the school bit. It's either run by the same corporation that owns the hospital, or said corporation probably has a massive grip on it

What cages are you talking about? I must be missing something

We'll assume they're all female for the time being, then

Last edited 11/08/04(Thu)14:31.

>>1790

>>cloning

are the kaibutsu being created for the purpose of finding remedies with which to treat normal people, in a way similar to the more controversial side of stem cell research?

>>plant hospital

so to be clear: in your theory, plant world represents an herbal remedy sabitsuki and other normal kids received from the hospital, while the kids that would die or become kaibutsu were denied treatment. in my theory, it represents a mass grave for dead test subjects. right? the flowbeet chronology works in your favor since the "gardener" appears before the parade of dead kaibutsu kids. it works in my favor if he's actually a just a gardener. i was curious to know if you thought might theory was plausible or not

>>cages

the big black square things with a grate in front of them. found in the office and some of the classrooms. i'd provide a screenshot but i don't currently have access to the game. what did you think they were

>>oreko

today i started to think she's an online friend hnnn

>>1791

Might as well explain it a bit better this time. Was trying to avoid saying too much about the theory since it still isn't completed, but that can't get in the way of a good exchange of ideas

According to the theory I've been forming, you're close enough. I believe that the Kaibutsus themselves are the result of cloning trial runs of sorts. They were meant to test the cloning process, and check what flaws/problems would arise with the end product. Possibly, a fair amount of them would still be used in the treatment of general populace. As actual clone (maybe even the first), produced solely for medicinal (in lack of a better word) purposes, would be Sabitsuki

The "treatment" itself would involve harvesting the clone's organs, and transplanting them to their corresponding original human. I believe this to be the case due to the "plant-grafting" theme; the ECG monitor is a constant image throughout these areas, and the vines, besides having an appearance not unlike human organs, are recognized in Sabitsuki's memories as something that wasn't a part of the person they are on

She doesn't view this as evil, though, probably because ultimately it's this same treatment that made her get better, even if only temporarily. Hence the Gardener, who, being pictured next to two ECG monitors, would be in charge of the transplantation process; and his death, as soon as her condition deteriorates once again (when the game enters the Rust chapter)

As a side-note, when I talk about cloning, I'm not talking about present-day cloning techniques, but rather the more sci-fi type. The type where those regeneration/growth pods we see Oreko and Sabitsuki in are used, giving form to a functional being, instead of just implanting DNA on an egg and creating an embryo

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There, that's a good bit of my theory's core. Do point out if there's anything I missed. Now, about your theory surrounding these areas

It is, for the most part, logically irreprehensible. There isn't really much that goes against it, but it does, at the very least, have one inconsistency; if the plants are a representation of decomposition on those kids' bodies, why are the healthy-looking kids (not to mention Little Sabitsuki herself, which we know hasn't died) the ones with herbs on them, while the bloody Kaibutsu kids haven't got even a single vine? Other than that, the only thing I can only think of is that it overlooks the Gardener dying during the Rust chapter, but that one is probably much easier to work into your theory

Those things? Shoe lockers, as it's customary in Japan. I can honestly say I never thought of them as cages. There's a bunch of them at the entrance, and they've been there ever since the school was nothing but a sort of easter egg where you could change the menu type. I've attached a pic with an example, it's from a japanese rpg that also depicts school life

So you've joined the "She's surfing the internet" faction?

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)12:29.

>>1792

>>your theory

so the plants are a metaphor for transplanted organs?
and original sabitsuki got her transplant from a cloned sabitsuki? which one do we play as

>>inconsistency

i'm not thinking too hard about it right now, but i could say because the normal kids are the result of an earlier earlier generation of tests that failed to yield the desired traits (white hair) and were disposed of and have been there long enough to rot. the tests would gradually become more successful, but as we see from the hallway outside sabitsuki's room, a lot of the white-haired kids die anyway and are put there with the older generation. why sabitsuki sees a teeny version of herself among them? i could go the metaphorical route and say that it's the same as the beaten sabitsuki holding hands with oreko (though i had coincidentally been testing out a new theory stating that sabitsuki had a stillborn twin who would have become rust). anyway these aren't great explanations so i'll come back to it later

>>shoe lockers

right, those things. i thought they were cages for two reasons. one because they appear to be made of rusting metal instead of something more traditional like brightly colored wood. if they were colored brown like the rest of the school, i would have identified them as cubbies but they stand out so much like they don't belong there. two because of the ones that have a big, uh…hole in them? where it looks like the "bars" broke off. the lines are uneven. what is that supposed to be, because someone would have to take a bat to the shelves to break them like that if they were made of wood, and i don't see how it'd happen at all if they were made of metal. unless they rusted clear through and fell off. the ones with holes in them gave me the impression that something escaped

where is the attachment i don't see it

>>surfing the internet

i don't know what she's doing but i feel that many theories don't account for the apparent importance of her computer

>Surfing the internet

Sabi is in college and she's actually working, hence her falling asleep at the computer instead of the bed

>>1794

The plant-grafts would be transplanted organs. The regular vines and flowers would be actual plants, and would be present in that area only because of the "organs = plants" association

We're playing as a clone of the original one. As with other clones, the Kaibutsus, Sabitsuki's experiencing an acute deterioration of her physical and mental capabilities, and has white hair. Ironically, Sabitsuki would have received the healthy organs of the original human, who would have died before the treatment could take place (due to the differences between the before and after versions of the testing facility's Parade ward). It's likely that parts of the original human's nervous system were also transplanted

Ah, one of those twins that get "absorbed" into the other's mass of cells during the initial rounds of cellular mitosis? I like that idea, don't think it has been mentioned before. It would imply the same happened to the Kaibutsus though, so maybe a side-effect of the experiments/trials they were submitted to?

God, I feel dumb... Completely forgot to upload it. I've edited the post now. Well, I think if they were cages we'd be able to see inside them, or, if the only side they have bars on is the one facing us, at least see something at all, a shadow of something, or shadowy outlines of the corners, something along those lines

But yes, that they are rusting is exactly what I think. The whole thing has spots of varying colors, it looks corroded. It might account for the hole. But I know, it's a really weird hole, I actually thought we could enter it the first time I saw them in the school's entrance. Anyway, I've posted (this time for sure) a resized version to provide visual aid

That's true. The computer is overlooked. Though with the events of the true ending, it's not farfetched to question whether the computer had any importance at all

>>1795

I doubt she'd keep on working after puking/losing all that blood. But even if she did, we don't know if she falls asleep at all. She does use her bed when we save, so it's not that unlikely that was meant to represent her falling asleep

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)13:23.

>>1796

>unlikely that she keeps working so she doesn't blow thousands of dollars on college
>likely that she's a clone

Makes sense

>>1797

>In college

>Should keep on working even though she's dying just to save a couple thousand dollars

>Losing enough blood to form pools but her teachers would completely ignore something like that

>In the end a Cleaner came along and killed her with a chainsaw, like what usually happens in colleges

Makes sense. Also next time try actually saying why the theory you're trying to bash doesn't make sense, it'll lend you a little bit of credibility

>>1798

>Her computer gets bigger as the illness meter increases
>These are obviously life support devices keeping her alive

fight me

also

>Just to save a couple thousand dollars

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)16:59.

>>1799

I've seen the boxes. In fact, if you check the wiki you'll see I was the one who both created the Erosion Counter page and talked about the boxes possibly being life support devices. That's just a guess though, and there's nothing that can corroborate it in the end

Her condition still deteriorates after the boxes are brought out, so, assuming they ARE life-support devices. I'm pretty sure this would be the time to see the doctor if all she was doing is working on a college assignment. And I'm not even gonna talk about how, in this scenario, she'd have just ignored losing all the blood she did up until that moment

Also

>Implying a year's worth of tuition fees is worth losing your life for

And you forgot to both address the Cleaner bit and point out what flaws my theory has

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)20:04.

>A widespread epidemic that causes children (and people with weakened immune systems. sorry AIDS victims) to basically fall apart and die hits japan
>"Testing Facility" is a medical center where scientists work to develop a vaccine to fend off said disease
>Long-term effects come to light as millions of children go through the oxidation process (read: that process Sabi is going through that turns her into a monster)

>"Cleaners" exterminate those that don't develop a strong enough immunity to overcome the virus, hence them not just killing Sabi right off the bat
>The ending now makes sense when you don't factor in the fact that Sabi came out of the bed and is therefore still asleep at the endgame

The only thing that warrants a cloning theory is Oreko, who's a little girl that lives in a cardboard box under the sea and works on a computer 24/7 that people think is a robot for some reason.

also

>mfw I have to disprove other theories

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)20:43.

now we're getting somewhere

>>1796

>>rust was a stillborn twin

either an entirely separate twin who died before or during or shortly after birth, or a twin that is present somewhere in sabitsuki's body (MAYBE HER LEGS). i'm still basing my theories on that three-headed sperm. either way one could say that the dead/conjoined twin is possessing sabitsuki at times. but i wouldn't say the other kaibutsu had this problem. it was a normal irregularity (loloxymoron) unrelated to the test/ritual and unforseen by the doctors/cultists. of course, my theory is about natural birth instead of test tube cloning so it might only work for me. right now i'm thinking that rust's unanticipated interference is what foiled the experiment/summoning. she's almost like a hero the way i've been writing it

>>cages/cubbies

i am familiar with shoe lockers. it's just that i don't think these really look like them. i kind of felt that the darkness inside only made them look more like cages. and yeah i tried to walk into the open one too. the cells in prison world are also completely black inside. i guess i feel that if these were cubbies, we'd at least be able to see some light fall on the outermost edges of the individual shelf bottoms like it does on the hospital cabinets. i did a sprite edit of what that might look like. i also did one of a kaibutsu behind the "bars." but it's all guesswork and who knows

>>computer

the computer may have had nothing to do with the in game journey, but its prevalence in her dreams speaks to its significance in her waking life

>>1795
i remember coming up with a reason why she couldn't be in college when this idea was first posted but i forgot what it was and didn't say anything

Last edited 11/08/05(Fri)22:35.

>>1801

You don't "have" to do anything, much less disprove other theories. But you should try to back up your implication that my theory was more far-fetched than yours. Unless, of course, you weren't trying to be taken seriously in the first place

>>1802

Oh, it's more of a soul-transfer thing then, is it? I see, I see. And I said the Kaibutsus had the same problem because I thought you had Rust as the bad guy (girl?) in your theory, and thus was responsible for the physical and mental deterioration a Kaibutsu undergoes. If he/she plays the hero's role then I could see him/her becoming the reason Sabitsuki held out longer than the other Kaibutsus in your theory. Why do you believe the dream world becomes such a hostile and corrupted place after Rust takes over, then?

I didn't even know what to think when I first saw your image mate, those are damned good! I see your point and accept it, but in that case wouldn't the cage's floor be visible to a certain degree? I know the water prison's cells are completely dark, but these are a different matter; after all, if you'd expect them to look like that if they were shoe lockers, then surely you'd also expect a great amount of light to penetrate its inside if they were cages, right?

As a final analysis I don't think it'd be too weird to say they're shoe lockers explicitly meant to look like cages. Even then I've never actually saw them linked with Kaibutsus in a palpable way

But as far as guesses go this is quite a good one; seeing as Kaibutsu means monster, and we always see them in their school uniform, which clearly implies it was during this part of her life they actually became crazy, then having cages in the school all Kaibutsu went to would be a fair association on Sabitsuki's part

Well, this whole bit was a big rant on my part, but you know me. I like having something concrete to base these assumptions on. Though in cases like this an educated guess is as good as we anything we'll ever get

I completely agree on that bit. Regardless of whether it might have been due to an event in her past or just personal preference, she knows, or at the very least believes, that the computer is a means to access a deeper level of her mind

Last edited 11/08/07(Sun)17:00.

>>1803

>>rust as the hero

i realize this is unorthodox but when discussing theories that involve interaction between sabitsuki and rust, in my notes i tend to refer to sabitsuki as "rusty." given that in japanese it goes from sabitsuki to sabi, i'd rather give both names an english equivalent. it's mostly an ocd sort of thing and it's just easier to type so don't mind me

but explaining rust as the hero will take some doing. i don't feel ready to post the whole thing just yet, but maybe soon. there are a lot of and/or's in it but maybe that's ok since attempting to nail the actual story is silly. i kind of wanted to draw some pictures to accompany it because walls of text are boring. but for the most part i think it's pretty removed from stuff that's been posted here so maybe it's interesting enough

>>cages/cubbies

yeah it'd make sense to see some light hit the floor but they wouldn't look as intimidating because it'd be pretty clear they are empty, at least if they contained a sabitsuki-sized character. when i first visited the school office i kept expecting something to leap out at me from them. but this is all my personal experience and i don't know why neither the cubby nor the cage has any light penetration. i actually agree with you on their possibly being cubbies designed specifically to invoke the image of cages, but i thought you'd think it was silly haha. i don't necessarily consider them linked with kaibutsu, but rather with the hospital's general ill intent (which in my theory involves creating monsters), and there happen to be kaibutsu in the room with cages that are "open." but really who knows what lol was going for, i don't claim to

>>1803

>Mind control facilities, cloning-

Okay new theory time, this one being much simpler. Pic related

Just realized. In the neko game, you are a black cat, in the computer Sabitsuki tries to become a cat but is white. All the 'sick' npc's have white hair, all the 'normal' npc's have black hair.

Does this mean shin shou neko is actually tied in to the fact Sabitsuki desperately wants to return to or become 'normal' with black hair, but no matter how many times she changes her appearance (cat) she will always be abnormal, or 'white hair'?

Pic slightly related.

>>1811
I think it's just because she has white hair

Hay gaiz, what if rust is not this other entity but something from Sabituki's childhood? Sabi could easily be seen as a nickname for a cute girl, (Sabi-chan, Sabi-tun, Sabi-puu) and the change in detail could actually be Sabitsuki realizing herself as a whole, previously rejecting herself and her memories (waking up scenes, refusing to go outside and to go places. The simpler or 'incomplete' Sabitsuki representig this). When she beats herself up in the ending, she is actually accepting who she is and who she has been, and is killing once she once was (the rejector of herself). Then she leaves her room knowing wholly her fate.

>>1804

Well, "covered in rust" is pretty much equivalent to "rusty", anyway. Just take your time thinking it through mate, I'll look forward to it

Ah, I thought you believed they were intrinsically tied to the Kaibutsus. We can agree on that then; whatever they're doing to those kids doesn't look legitimate at all, so they're probably keeping them in an incredibly controlled environment to keep the truth from coming out

>>1805

No mind control facilities. And you think cloning's far-fetched BECAUSE it's cloning, and not because you actually see something wrong with the theory? I guess we haven't played the same game then

>>1811

I'd have to go with what anon said over here. After all, white cats aren't something unusual, nor do they have an increased propensity for falling ill (as far as I know), so my guess is it doesn't have any relation with Sabitsuki's condition

>>1814

Not bad at all! So she's ignoring a part of her past, instead of having something take control of her?

If you see the image in >>1164, you'll notice that the sprite you get in the Rust chapter isn't just more detailed, but has a much whiter tone, to the point of looking sick. In my opinion, I don't really think that fits too well with the "realizing herself as a whole" bit

By wake-up scenes, do you mean the events that force her to wake up? If so, there are still two of them during the Rust chapter

Anyway, ignoring those points, what is her fate, exactly, and why is the Cleaner afraid of her? According to your theory, of course. And also, what part do the demons play in it?

>>1819
I fail to see how cloning fits into the game just because Oreko had a cloning lab and all the Kaibutsu look the same, which is like saying all black people and asians look the same therefore they're clones.

Last edited 11/08/07(Sun)19:50.

>>1820
i say the protagonist is a hellspawn and you'd rather attack a theory about cloning

come ON

>>1821
That one was too easy

>>1822
oh snap

>cloning lab -> cloning theory is unlikely
>properly structured theory -> too easy

pic related. just ignore him and carry on guys

>>1824
more like

>Sabi is a hellspawn > Too easy to shoot that down

In my opinion, I think the cat effect and the broom effect are just homages to Kiki's Delivery Service.

Also people were talking about the vine and plant world. I believe symbolically, the white flowers represent Sabitsuki (look at her hair compared to the flowers.) and vines represent veins and blood vessels. Admittedly I haven't played much of flow so I'm not sure if these were common believes/thoughts/observations. /whatever or I'm just a noob. (It's one of the only fangames I can't play currenctly because it actually scares and unsettles me.)

>>1819

Yes. She is not being taken over. She is actually repressing a part of herself. Ol' Rustie wants Sabitsuki to remember herself and throw away the thing that kept her from moving forward in her life.

>>1821

Your theory is coming along pretty well hello. It's certainly not inferior in any way

>>1824

You're most likely right. But I'll risk feeding him one more time on the off-chance that he isn't one

>>1828

Haven't watched that show so I've got nothing on the homage bit, but as far as the flowers are concerned we have the same opinion, and exactly for the same reason. The flower model in my pic is probably the one you were talking about, and I guess the one which gives us the Plant effect may look similar to it (haven't checked)

>>1829

I see, I see. What of the other stuff I asked about? Or are you still forming your theory?

>>1820

That's the first sensible post you've made. You're obviously entitled not to agree with it. Hell, I don't expect many people to think this theory can explain what happens in the game at this point, as what I posted is but a part of the whole

Answering your black people/asians bit: it's not about the Kaibutsu all looking the same, which they don't, as there are 3 different models. It's about them BEING the same. A Kaibutsu isn't a Kaibutsu because his/her hair is white, that's not their defining feature. They're creatures who exhibit a deranged, violent behavior, and we see it throughout the game

The cloning theme is quite present in this game, the growth pod with Sabitsuki in it being of particular importance as you must see it in order to get the true ending. Then, for example, there's the fact that lol took the trouble to make Kaibutsu kid models which matched the adult/adolescent ones, and placed them multiple times in the same map. That you don't think cloning is THE theory is perfectly natural, but you can hardly say it's far-fetched when there are so many elements supporting it

The thing is what you were doing before wasn't just saying you didn't agree with it. You said the theory didn't make sense. You tried to bash it as a way of saying "You don't get to say that because your theory is worse than mine" when I pointed out the flaws in yours

And worse, you think your college theory is more likely than both the cloning or the demon theories. Mind you, I haven't seen you be able to refute ANY point from either of them. On the other hand, your theory is nothing but a wild guess seeing as you backed it up with a story comprised mostly of elements we never actually see in-game

To conclude, if you are a troll, then mission accomplished. Otherwise, please understand this isn't a "Your theory is good" thread. If all you want is for people to mindlessly agree with what you're saying try commenting on Youtube videos. On the other hand, if you want to read up on what others have concluded and help them polish their theories, or have a theory of your own which you want to expose and improve, then keep posting and be a part of the discussion

>>flowers that look like sabitsuki's head

i know those are at least based on a white flower found in yume nikki, but are they ripped completely or edited to look how they do in .flow i don't feel like checking

>>kiki's delivery service

it's easy enough to conclude that this movie is simply something sabitsuki likes or relates to (or lol likes i mean he's all about shoutouts)

i saw it a long time ago and only vaguely remembered the conflict, but reading the plot synopsis on wikipedia i'm finding vague similarities between the film and my own theory. but probably only because i want them to be there. i'll find a way to watch it and get back to you

>>certainly not inferior in any way

i was joking my theory's awesome

>>1830

Sorry, I thought you were referring to someone else with those questions.

To be honest I always assumed that is what she always looked like. I don't remember saying that realizing who she really was meant she would look healthier. If she is denying her past experiences it would make sense she would see herself as if it never happened (less sickly, not as ill, etc). The paleness can be waved off to all her time indoors (the hospital, her room, etc) and so it would make sense she would try to see herself as someone with a healthier tone to get away from that. Also, just because she is in the process of realizing who she is doesn't mean she won't still feel overwhelmed/horrified/try to revert which is the rust-type forcibly waking up scenes.

As for what the red imps play in this, I always saw them as a something to make Sabi try to stop and go back. The ending really highlights this, as well as the fact they pretty much kamikaze her to try and injure her and drive her away. At least when I played, the fact they never send you to somewhere else made them less dangeous, but their ability to remove your effect (and later on force you to wake up if you tank too many) seems a very clear to me 'STOP. STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP-'.

As for her fate, I honestly don't know. I had always believed at the end Sabi realized she was equals with the kaibutsu that had chased and harassed her all this time, embraced that more malicious side of herself, especially when under the threat of chainsaw and she felt she had to defend herself through violence and a more baser instinct.

I'd like to add some more symbolism I noticed throughout the game, although this is probably pretty obviously. There seems to be a lot of crosses in non-hospital worlds, like the red and blue heart world. Obviously a medical cross.) And the tattoo effect puts crosses on her eyes.

The use of a computer to acess the dream world may be a loose metaphor for the infection and disease theme throughout the game. Think computer viruses.

I don't know much about psychology, and I haven't really taken a good read through this thread, but I believe the multiple Sabitsuki's could be different aspects of herself that she wants to hide or repress. Perhaps the ending she met up with her shadow-self. (The part of you which conceals all knowledge of things you'd rather not know about yourself and things you've experienced.) I need to replay .flow, and I don't know a lot about psychology so I may try reading up on Jungian psychology. It's generally a bad idea to kill your shadow as it part of yourself.

Also on the subject of arguing theories... These games were made to discuss and form your own connections, meaning, and truth. There really is no one story. They are meant to be interpreted as many different things. Yume Nikki games are basically David Lynch movies. He'll never reveal anything about what actually happened, so the (usually cult) audience is left guessing and analyzing for a very long time. That's part of the fun of these games for me.